Tory think-tank pushes for easing of cannabis laws

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  • firestorm
    V.I.P. Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 1550

    #1

    Tory think-tank pushes for easing of cannabis laws

    Tory think-tank pushes for easing of cannabis laws to be cornerstone of party?s election manifesto


    David Cameron is today urged by Tory modernisers to abandon Britain?s 40-year ?futile? war against drugs and make partial legalisation a key pledge in next year?s general election manifesto.

    The provocative plan is contained among a series of policy proposals put forward by the influential Conservative think-tank Bright Blue, a group which is backed by senior ministers including Theresa May, Francis Maude, and the former minister Andrew Mitchell.

    It suggests that drug reform would appeal to young and ethnic-minority voters, who are crucial to the party?s long-term survival, while saving millions of pounds of public money.

    Other controversial policies put forward in The Modernisers? Manifesto include abolishing universal winter fuel payments and excluding students and highly skilled workers from the Government?s net migration target. It also suggests introducing a requirement for new teachers to have at least a 2:1 degree in core subjects and abandoning automatic pay rises for doctors and nurses.

    But it is likely to be the proposal for decriminalising drugs ? put forward by the journalist and former Cameron adviser Ian Birrell ? that will prove most controversial. In his article for the manifesto, which is reproduced by The Independent today, he reveals that Mr Cameron briefly flirted with the policy after becoming Tory leader in 2005. He said it was abandoned because of the fear of ?hostile headlines?.

    But Mr Birrell, a former Deputy Editor of The Independent, said changes since then had made the cause of decriminalisation right and electorally advantageous. He cites a recent poll that found a majority of people favour permitting cannabis use, while four in 10 Britons favour total decriminalisation. ?It is hard to think of another policy with the same potential to challenge popular conceptions of conservatism,? he writes.

    While the policy is unlikely to find favour with Ms May and others on the Tory right it does reflect a growing international trend following the legalisation of cannabis in some US states. The Liberal Democrats have already said they will set up a Royal Commission to overhaul Britain?s drugs rules and some within Labour would back a similar approach.

    Ryan Shorthouse, director of Bright Blue, said it was important for the Conservative modernisers to engage in this debate as well.

    ?What is clear is that much more needs to be done on the development of drugs policy in the UK as the current situation is both economically and socially damaging,? he said.

    ?We believe that the Conservatives at the next election need to be seen to be taking on the big, difficult issues facing society and not be distracted by the Ukip agenda of Europe and immigration.?

    Mr Shorthouse said Bright Blue would not go as far as Mr Birrell in advocating the complete legalisation of drugs but partial decriminalisation needed to be looked at.
    Tory modernisation: What is Bright Blue?

    Bright Blue is a Conservative think-tank that was set up in 2010 to keep alive the flame of Tory modernisation in government. While not specifically linked to any wing of the party, its ideas tend to be relatively liberal and several key Tory modernisers such as David Willetts and Francis Maude are on its advisory board. Those connected with the group are concerned that too much focus on immigration and Europe, to combat the Ukip threat, will alienate centrist voters and could deprive the party of victory next year.

    source independent
    If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine
  • GastonJ
    V.I.P. Member
    • Dec 2009
    • 5505

    #2
    It suggests that drug reform would appeal to young and ethnic-minority voters, who are crucial to the party’s long-term survival, while saving millions of pounds of public money.
    In reality raising millions in tax, though that's not a problem. But it deflects attention from their failings in other areas, which is probably why it was released to deflect away from some other news that they don't want to be in the headlines.

    It's bad enough that they alienate smokers, blaming them for everything they can while gladly pocketing the tax revenue (as they all do) so can you imagine the amount of tax they'd be charging for cannabis to cover future medical and physcological costs that could come from such a move. Smoking is bad for you, I see no reason they'd legalise smoking of cannabis when the effects of smoking are already known. On top of that, although studies are difficult to do (cannabis being illegal in most places) there have been studies around the side effects of mental well being.

    So while it might be a great vote winner to promise to look at decriminalising drugs, and a great revenue earner if they did, it's unlikely to happen.
    My master plan is to live forever..... going to plan so far
    Despite the cost of living, it's still very popular.
    No good deed goes unpunished....

    Comment

    • firestorm
      V.I.P. Member
      • Jul 2008
      • 1550

      #3
      I totally (well almost) agree with you Torys will never pass a law to allow cannabis use in the uk.As for mental health issues it is extremely hard to prove or disprove as a lot of people who already have underling metal health problems turn to alcohol cannabis coke ect so its a case of which came first the chicken or the egg scenario.Having said that the the recent changes in the USA have not shown any increase in mental health issues in the sates that have legalised cannabis.I know its only been legal for 5 months now, but it is encouraging to say the least.Put with the no increase in anti social behaviour (unlike alcohol) and the massive tax revenue created.It must seem an option worth looking at for any serious political party even if it is only for medical usage.
      I do think the change in Law is coming as the War on Drugs is seen as a very expensive booth economically and in human term a failure.But i don’t think it will be the Torys and i hope its not the fascist UKIP party who have also proposed decriminalisation of drugs.
      If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine

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      • super jumbe
        V.I.P. Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 11610

        #4
        Cigarettes are the most income tax profit at present time, cannabis should not be legalised, our children?s will be addictive from the day it will be available on the market.
        Tools owned: Hammer, Chisel, Crowbar, Punch, Chainsaw, Cutter and Brain!!!

        Did you know People will question all the good things they hear about you but believe all the bad without a second thought.

        Note:
        All information given is to be used for educational purposes only and should not be taken seriously.

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        • gmb45
          Admin Assistant
          • Nov 2008
          • 7538

          #5
          bob hope wasnt to bad when it was just ya various types of resin, but now it mostly super skunk which blows ya mind.
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          • Cod3waX
            Banned
            • Mar 2011
            • 1011

            #6
            Need a BOO button SUPER J u are so wrong
            If my kid got hold of any Drug i would want it to be Cannabis as it does no harm to you!
            And getting high is no different than being drunk apart from the lack of hangover and killing ya liver
            When we legalize cannabis it will only be available to adults and for medical patients ONLY
            But letting kids smoke and drink is better for them in your eyes?

            Death From Fags = Millions
            Death From Alcohol = Millions
            Death From Cannabis = 0

            If a kid teenager got hold of cannabis for the first time he/she would probably want to chill out and eat some food and have a laugh yes? but i bet u couldn't say the same about alcohol

            Cannabis is curing many illnesses and people are waking up to this fact! 1 in 2.75 people will get cancer in there lifetime cure yourself

            Comment

            • firestorm
              V.I.P. Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 1550

              #7
              Originally posted by super jumbe
              Cigarettes are the most income tax profit at present time, cannabis should not be legalised, our children’s will be addictive from the day it will be available on the market.
              Then they will go out and kill every they see with a red car the dead will rise from the graves bird will fly backward and the sun will never rise again.
              I ve seen it happen in Holland every kid is so stoned that they don’t go to school all they do is eat mars bars all day, the country as now fallen into a third world country,Portugal,USA,Spain,Switzerland,Italy,Belgi um.
              The only addictive part of cannabis is Physiological it has no Physical dependancy in other words it about as additive as not walking under a ladder.

              And as for it was ok when it was just Bob Hope, when i grew up you could get bitter 3.2% mild 2.8%(wash) larger may be 4% if you were lucky now look at the strength of Booze now 5.2% is the norm.Course its stronger here, because it was cut down(with all kinds of nasty stuff) by every person who handle it from Morocco to Morecambe in order to increase profit, were as now it is grown in the UK. but if the government had some control over cannabis then people would know what they are smoking were now they have not got a clue how strong it is what chemical it has been spayed with.
              Last edited by firestorm; 30 April, 2014, 14:47.
              If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine

              Comment

              • GastonJ
                V.I.P. Member
                • Dec 2009
                • 5505

                #8
                Originally posted by gmb45
                bob hope wasnt to bad when it was just ya various types of resin, but now it mostly super skunk which blows ya mind.
                Don't you have to have one first?

                On a more serious note I'm also for a zero rate of alcohol in your blood when you drive. It's been well known that drunk drivers kill people, but find a government that will do anything about it - never will, but doing so would save 100% of lives wrecked by drink drivers *shrug* Add drugs into the mix of being able to get high and drive then it just makes a bad situation worse. The police know where and when to look for drink drivers, chucking out time, any pub car park, Christmas etc, how will they spot drugged drivers?

                the recent changes in the USA have not shown any increase in mental health issues
                Have you been to many of the large cities in the US? I doubt the mental health issues could get any worse, and there it's generally ignored as a health problem, and most with mental health issues end up in the legal system.

                .Put with the no increase in anti social behaviour (unlike alcohol)
                That'snot strictly true really is it. Those that already take drugs and cause problems will do so even if it's legal to do so. Legalising wion't make it cheaper, taxing it will make it ore expensive, so those with addictive personalities will continue to steal as they do now, and probably have to steal more to fund their that addiction. You'll note that I don't say cannabis is addictive because I don't believe it is, however it does have a tendency to promote such traits that people already have, mental illness, addictive behavior etc.

                I don't have a problem with cannabis as such, as long as it's used properly and I suppose quality controlled. Right now we can't even get that right with alcohol and that's legal. What hope that people would use cannabis properly and be able to afford it?
                My master plan is to live forever..... going to plan so far
                Despite the cost of living, it's still very popular.
                No good deed goes unpunished....

                Comment

                • Kalipo
                  DK Veteran
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 1687

                  #9
                  It suggests that drug reform would appeal to young and ethnic-minority voters, who are crucial to the party’s long-term survival, while saving millions of pounds of public money.
                  This is a tad racist is it not??

                  I dont believe anything will come of this, theyre trying to grab as many votes as posible from nothing! conservatives losing here!
                  ich bin stolz ein deutscher zu sein.

                  Meathead Lufter Verein - iScheitern

                  Comment

                  • firestorm
                    V.I.P. Member
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 1550

                    #10
                    @ GastonJ
                    Your first point has already been addressed (to a point) by recent changes to drug driving Laws i.e. (not sure on the actual levels but i am sure if you google them they will be there). If you are caught with alcohol and an illegal drug in your system it the pass level is significantly reduced for either substance. I do agree to a point on zero levels ,but say you have a chicken in white wine source or alcohol based mouth wash or even alcohol hand wash(the stuff they use in hospitals) can enter your blood stream in very small amount this would cost you your licence and may be your livelihood.The police do know were to look out for certain types of drink driver but chucking out time is not a set time any more we now have 24hr drink in the UK.I would imagine when cannabis (not all drugs as the post is about cannabis) becomes legal/decriminalised, then the police would be on the watch out around coffee shops and cannabis dispensaries the same way they look out for people coming out of pubs and off-licences making it easer to spot them than it is now.

                    On your Second point i have not been to the states since February, was in Chicago for a couple of days with work generally go about 2 times a year.So i do understand to a limited point how atrocious the USA treats it poor mental health citizens different story if you are rich.My point was that since certain states have made cannabis legal the mental heath hospitals in them states have seen NO increase in people with the so call Psychoses symptoms(people thinking they are don Johnson and trying to buy a crocodile that is my fav all time anti cannabis B/S story) that was widely predicted to happen by the anti cannabis lobby.

                    And on your third point like i said earlier in the post that i was talking about cannabis not drugs in general to which has no real anti social affect compered to alcohol, A very good example was UEFA EURO 2000 when it was joint held by Holland and Belgium.The dutch promoted it liberal cannabis law were the Belgium's had stella (for example) in belgium there was English rioting in Charleroi and Brussels which led to nearly 800 arrests with a 174 arrests for serious violence ,were as Holland the same England fans only managed a total of 163 arrest with 37 being for serious violence .

                    i do appreciate that most normal people like your self don’t have any major problem with cannabis (except for daily mail readers).I don’t see why people should have the lives ruined at the hands of the legal system(If you get a conviction as a teenager for cannabis possession then you will never be able to work in certain jobs or enter the USA but get done for drink driving well thats another discussion) just because the government can’t get it right is wrong.
                    Although drug use is falling in Britain, this country still has the highest rates of drug use in Europe, with one in 12 adults and one in six older teenagers admitting having taken an illegal drug last year. All these people are putting their lives in the hands of dealers who use murder and mayhem to promote their illegal business. The tragic results are seen too often.Legalisation would replace this ultra-free market that exists to the benefit of the world's most vicious criminal groups with a system in which supply was controlled, products regulated and profits taxed. This is far safer for children, since parents will have more control than at present; it is safer for users, since the drugs can be tested for strength and purity; and it is safer for society, since it cuts off funding for the gangs that scar our cities and the cartels that carve up the world.
                    It makes sense on economic, political, social and moral grounds. It is also popular because, just as in the US, pressure for reform is growing in Britain. A poll by the campaign group Transform found that a majority favour permitting cannabis use, while four in 10 Britons favour total decriminalisation and more than two-thirds favour a comprehensive review of all drug policies.
                    Last edited by firestorm; 1 May, 2014, 03:36.
                    If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine

                    Comment

                    • ajax2061
                      DK Veteran
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 395

                      #11
                      If it was legal I would use it, simple reason being it's been proved too help ppl with crohns and can even bring around remission

                      Comment

                      • Snowy79
                        DK Veteran
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1347

                        #12
                        Tobacco is legal yet it's still sold on the black market and mixed with other substances so I doubt legalising cannabis will cut off the drug dealers profits or make it safer. People mainly go for the cheaper option so if it's ?5 a packet licensed the dealers will sell rip off stuff for ?4 and muppets will buy it.

                        Comment

                        • firestorm
                          V.I.P. Member
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 1550

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snowy79
                          Tobacco is legal yet it's still sold on the black market and mixed with other substances so I doubt legalising cannabis will cut off the drug dealers profits or make it safer. People mainly go for the cheaper option so if it's ?5 a packet licensed the dealers will sell rip off stuff for ?4 and muppets will buy it.
                          There will always be a black market its just human nature not only tobacco is copied, just about every product that can make money is copied from satellite boxes to medical equipment.You are a 100% right some muppet will buy it.But is this a good reason to make criminals out of other wise Law abiding tax paying citizens?
                          If you take for example Colorado It brought in more than $3.5 million in taxes on sales from recreational cannabis in January alone, with the proceeds going toward the construction of public schools in the state.That has took a great deal of profit from the drug cartels and put he money back into the community.
                          If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine

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