freemasons taking over the world

[irfy]

Takin over as we speak

There are people who are members of the Masonic order on here, they will undoubtledly be members of other chapters as well, and they will have gone through the chair, and those on the outside, do not understand that it really is a bunch of men, who like to get together and do something together.... No where would they want to take over the world.

As someone said earlier, they have been around for 1000's of years, and they are still defo no nearer, you may as well be worried about the Monster Raving Loony party taking over, or, they are just a bunch of men who get together, have a few drinks, and a meal --- and some ritualistic stuff.

If you want to find out --- go and join. Most lodges are crying out for members.

Ummm we are in a global crysis ummmm WHY? The bankers!! umm war on Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, lots of others.. ummm why are our troops there?? umm to secure the promised land.. ummmm WHY? for the false messiah. Ummm how will we know he's the false one.... umm he will have 1 eye and 1 groping eye....

They are preparing the world for his arrival (meaning spreading terror, disease, war, Lies, thru the media which they control)
They used Bush who by the way is directly related to Mr Aleister Crowley, then they shove a new face into the picture Mr Obama who by the way is related to the Bush wackers anyway. They killed the lovely Princess Diana she was gona marry out of the blood line. Ooooh and they take genetics VERY seriously.

Cryin out for members !! NO thanx id rather play ping pong

List of some freemasons (lot more not listed)


US-PRESIDENTS: Obama, Bush wackers, George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Warren G. Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson, Gerald R. Ford.

POLITICAL LEADERS WORLD WIDE: Winston Churchill, Simon Bolivar, Edmund Burke, Benito Juarez, Edward VII, Geroge VI, Bernardo O'Higgins, Jos? de San Martin, Francisco de Paula Santander, Jos? Rizal, Jos? Marti, Pandit Nehru, Lajos Kossuth, Jonas Furrer, Guiseppe Mazzini, Eduard Benes, John A. MacDonald, Aaron Burr, George McGovern, Barry Goldwater, Estes Kefauer, Thomas E. Dewey, Alf Landon, Hubert H. Humphrey, Wendel Wilke, W.E.B. DuBois, William Jennings Bryant, King Hussein of Jordan, Yasser Arafat, Francois Mitterand, Helmut Kohl, Gerhard Shroeder, Tony Blair, Yikzak Rabbin, Cecil Rhodes, Sir John J.C. Abbott, Stephen F. Austin, John G. Diefenbaker, Samuel J. Ervin Jr. (Watergate committee), Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Patrick Henry, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Sam Nunn, Lowell Thomas (brough Lawrence of Arabia to pub. not.), Gov. George C. Wallace, Strom Thurman, Jesse Helms, Robert Dole, Jack Kemp, Al Gore, Prince Phillip (GB), Zbigniew Brzezinski, Lord Peter Carrington, Andrew Carnegie, W. Averell Harriman, Henry Kissinger, Richard D. Heideman, Robert McNamara.

MILITARY LEADERS: Omar Bradley, John J. Pershing, Douglas McArthur, General Winfield Scott, Captain Eddie Rickenbacker, Jimmy Doolittle, General Mark Clarkem General George C. Marshall, General Henry "Hap" Arnold, John Paul Jones, Afred von Tirpitz (submarine warfare)

ARTISTS AND ENTERTAINERS: W.A. Mozart, Leopold Mozart, Ludwig van Beethoven, Jean Sibelius, Franz Liszt, Josef Haydn, Irving Berlin, Gutzon Borglum, Charles Peale, Alfons M. Mucha, Richard Wagner, John Philip Sousa, Gilbert & Sullivan, George Gershwin, George M. Cohen, Count Basie, Louise Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Giacomo Meyerbeer, Sigmund Romberg, John Wayne, Red Skelton, Clarke Gable, W.C. Fields, Will Rogers, Burl Ives, Roy Rogers, Danny Thomas, Ernest Borgnine, Oliver Hardy, Tom Mix, Audie Murphy, Gene Autry, Wallace Beery, Eddie Cantor, Roy Clarke, George M. Cohan, Walt Disney, Duke Ellington, Douglas Fairbanks, Leonardo da Vinci, Arthur Godfrey, Bob Hope, Harry Houdini, Al Jolson, Elmo Lincoln (Tarzan), Harold C. Lloyd,.jr, Tom Mix, Ronald Reagan, Will Rogers, Peter Sellers, William Shakespeare, Charles "Tom Thumb" Stratton, Paul Whiteman (King of Jazz), William Wyler (dir. of Ben Hur), Cecil B. DeMille, Sir Arthur Sullivan, John Zoffany.

MOVIE INDUSTRY: Jack Warner, Louise B. Mayer (MGM), Darryl F. Zanuck (20th Century Fox)

INDUSTRY, TRADE, BANKING AND LABOR: Henry Ford, Samuel Gompers, Walter P. Chrysler, John Wanamaker, S.S. Kresge, J.C. Penney, John Jacob Astor, John L. Lewis, Pehr G. Gyllenhammar (Volvo), Percy Barnevik (ABB), Andr? Citro?n, Samuel Colt (Colt revolver), Edwin L. Drake (oil), Rockefeller family, Rothschild family, King C. Gillette (Razors), Charles C. Hilton (Hilton hotels), Sir Thomas Lipton (Tea), Harry S. New (Airmail), Ransom E. Olds (Oldsmobile), David Sarnoff (father of TV), John W. Teets, Dave Thomas (Wendy's Rest.), Edgar Bronfman Jr. (Seagram Whiskey), Rich DeVos (Amway), Alan Greenspan (Fed. Reserve), Giovanni Agnelli (FIAT), Peter Wallenberg (SE-Bank Sweden)

ADVENTURERS: Lewis & Clarke, Charles A. Lindbergh, Kit Carson, Roald Amundsen, Admiral Richard Byrd, Commodore Robert Peary, Kit Carson, Casanova, William "Buffalo Bill" Cody, Davy Crockett, Meriwether Lewis, Robert E. Peary (Northpole)

PHILOSOPHERS: Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Gotthold E. Lessing, Voltaire

ASTRONAUTS: Buzz Aldrin, Leroy Gordon Cooper, Donn Eisele, Virgil I. Grissom, Edgar D. Mitchell, Walter Schirra Jr., Thomas P. Stafford, Paul Weitz, James Irvin, John Glenn

WRITERS: Mark Twain, Sir Walter Scott, Rudyard Kipling, Robert Burns, Wassily I. Maikow, Heinrich Heine, Jean P.C. de Florian, Leopoldo Lugoner, Antonio de Castro Alves, James Boswell, Alexander Pushkin, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Jonathan Swift, Oscar Wilde, Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Robert Burns, Carlo Collodi (Pinoccio), Edward Gibbon, Francis Scott Key (US NAtional Anthem), Rudyard Kipling, Felix Salten (Bambi), Lewis Wallace (Ben Hur), Alexander Pope

MEDICINE: Alexander Fleming (Penicillin), Jules Bordet, Antoine DePage, Edward Jenner, Charles & William Mayo, Karl & William Menninger, Karl A. Menninger (psychiatrist), Andrew T. Still (Osteopathy)

SCIENCE: Carl Sagan, Hans C. Orsted, J.J Frk. von Berzelius, Alfred Edmund Brehms, Luther Burbank, Johan Ernst Gunnerus, Albert Abraham Michelson (measured speed of light), Gaspard Monge, C.F.S. Hahnemann, Pedro N. Arata, Alexandre Gustave Eiffel, Jame Smithson, John Fitch (Steamboats), Joseph Ignance Guillotin (inventor of the Guillotin), Edward Jenner (vaccin), Simon Lake (submarine), Franz Anton Mesmer (Hypnotism), Albert Einstein, A.J. Sax (saxophone)

LAW: Henry Baldwin, Hugo L. Black, John Blair Jr., Samuel Blatchford, Harold H. Burton, James F. Byrnes, John Catton, Thomas C. Clarke, John H. Clarke, William Cushing, Willis van Devanter, William O. Douglas, Oliver Ellsworth, Stephen J. Field, John M. Harlan, RObert H. Jackson, Joseph E. Lamar, Thurgood Marshall, Stanley Matthews, Sherman Minton, Tom Mix, William H. Moody, Samuel Nelson, William Paterson, Mahlon Pitney, Stanley F. Reed, Wiley B. Rutledge, Potter Stewart, Noah H. Swayne, Thomas Todd, Robert Trimble, Frederick M. Vinson, Earl Warren, Levi Woodbury, William B. Woods

OTHERS: Frederic A. Bartholdi (designed the Staue of Liberty), Daniel Carter Beard (founder of Boy Scouts), Cornelius Hedges (Yellowstone Nat.Park), James Hoban (architect U.S Captial), James Naismith (basketball), Paul Revere (famous American), Rupert Murdoch (media mogul)

EDUCATION: Robert E.B. Baylor, Leland Stanford (Railroads & Stanford University)

RELIGIOUS LEADERS: Father Francisco Calvo (Jesuit Cat. Priest), Geoffrey Fisher (Canterbury), Billy Graham, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Joseph Fort Newton, Robert Shuller, Oral Roberts, Louise Farrahkan (Nation of Islam), G. Bromley Oxman (friend of Billy Graham), Joseph Smith (Mormon cult), Hyrum Smith (Brother), Brigham Young (2nd leader of Mormon cult), Sidney Rigdon (early Mormon), Heber C. Kimball, Spencer Kimball, Aleister Crowley (Satanist), Gerald B. Gardner (Wiccan), Wynn Westcott (Golden Dawn)

ORGANIZATIONS: Jean Henry Dunant (Red Cross), Melvin Jones (Lions Int.), Giuseppe Mazzini (Ital. Illuminati leader), Albert Pike (Ku Klux Klan)

INTELLIGENCE: J. Edgar Hoover, William Casey

A lot of popstars: Madonna head mistress of em all

[MYTO8]

Wait what?
Your views are close minded, paranoid and entirely unfounded in this instance.

In my lodge i stand proudly side by side with Christians, Jews, Muslims. Its entirely NON-DENOMINATIONAL, in fact i don't ever remember religion ever being discussed in an actual meeting. Theres absolutely no worship toward any "Messiah" in fact if there where it would cause more harm than good, simply down to the fact that what one man views as a messiah will and should widely differ from another's.

Ah but wait they do crazy satanic rituals right?..
Wrong.
Sure we perform ritual dramas, but these have absolutely nothing to do with religion, they're merely allegorys filled with symbolism, they're there to teach and instruct in a memorable way. They impart ethics and morals on how men should act towards each other and instill discipline. Religion can deal with how men relate to some "god" masonry should not and does not.

Simply put, freemasonry is nothing more than a frat house that keeps minuites and holds dramas geared towards teaching some sorely needed morals and ethics that definately seem lacking in todays society.

As for being secretive, freemasons generaly aint, any freemason worth his salt will openly let you know hes one, the only part he will keep secret is the specific goings on in his lodge. You want to know what the exact outline of our rituals and ceremonies are? your more than welcome to join in the fun with us.
Secret handshakes? symbols? this is just to let one mason let another mason know that hes been inducted and can take part in another lodge without fear of letting the tradition down.
Traditions are an antiquated things nowadays, noone seems to abide by them any more which is a great shame, every man in the navy for instance knew he was part of a brotherhood by sharing a tot with them over dinner, once that got changed in july 31st 1970 the Navy changed, most would say for the worst. This is one of a number of reasons we keep ours secluded from the larger world, tradition brings a sense of unity and thats something that runs deep in a mason.

If standing side by side with people from all walks of life with all kinds of beliefs and not feeling the need to stab them because "my god is better than your god" is wrong, then so be it, i dont think i would want to be right.

Im happy standing in my lodge beside to my fellow man and knowing without a shadow of doubt that my belief is just as valid as his, not moreso, not less. I respect him enough to let him practice his religion in whichever way suits him best, knowing he has the same respect for me.
Any discussions surrounding his or mine should and will be kept outside the lodge where it wont bring the detriment of religious practices into events.

Exactly the same can be said of sexual orientation and political beliefs.

I agree with that.

I am of a person who is not bothered by a persons beilef religion sexuality its there choice as long as they dont impose it on myself im happy.

I think the Irfy z786 are confusing to host of these apparent brain washing subliminal message are actually a diversion as those are transmitted by the catholic church. If Quoting movies that have apparent connection well Ive seen the divinci code....
Movies are from the mind of the creator maybe they use there beliefs to channel thoughts of the viewer.

I believe that religion is the worst thing to happen to Christianity. There has been fighting in the name of religion for thousands of years. And it is the narrow mindedness in which is created with in a particular religion is where it goes wrong with "mines right , your wrong" mentality which it creates.

I often believe society creates paranoia and over analysis due to the stress created by life and technology created today. I remember 20 yrs ago before the mass spread of INTERNET, There wasn't the fear of complete financial ruin a Nigerian or a virus stealing your identity and bank details and cleaning it out with the stroke of a key . There wasn't a fear of pedophiles grooming your children on chat forums, nor psychological cyber bullying of a Child/person on the net from a person on other side of world in which shatters them mentally and emotionally to the point of suicide.

But these days there is someone always monitoring your life without your conscious knowledge eg internet, credit cards mobile phones all allow a persons movements and location to be tracked to a pinpoint second whilst embracing this technology. It is a fact of life in the 21st century

As for 9-11 we only have what is created by the media to go on Ive seen a few documentaries on the tv and net about possible conspiracy theories which do you believe it all comes back to finger pointing. It may well have been the us or world government creating a excuse to create a attack on a country so it can control the world greatest commodity oil. At the end of the day everyone has there beilefs and theories how ever misguided by oppinion it maybe, as long as there is life there will be conflict.

We all need to cherish our loved ones also become more tolerante of others and the world has a chance to survive what the world has become.

[z786]

mate, jus watch the arrivals and then tell me whos confused

heres a taster

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN-sf_VOa90&feature=related"]YouTube- The Arrivals pt.25/51 (The Antichrist Dajjal is Here).[/ame]

[nara]

I believe that religion is the worst thing to happen to Christianity.

Did you really mean to say that?

[chroma]

For the love of god just check and read this link:

Aleister Crowley EXPOSED!

There are levels of free masonary you obviously sit somewhere near the bottom. If your practises are anywhere near what his are like then there's something very very wrong.

Just think carrying on the BEASTS legacy

I do have respect for other religions but seriously do you call freemasonary a religion??

Didnt read the link you posted, didnt really have to as a little cross referencing on David J. Stewart instantly brought up all maner of things, put simply the guy is a headcase and anything he prints should be taken with bus tonnage of salt.

Hes even been indicted in 2009 for sex with a minor, not someone i would consider credible by any sense of the word.

"but seriously do you call freemasonary a religion"
Most definately NOT reread my post and you'll see that i stated a number of times that freemasonry has almost nothing to do with religion, in fact the only time the topic is ever brought up is during induction.

I find it more and more amusing that people insist on quoting people without doing any kind of due dilligence on the people they quote from. To reitterate if an icelandic poet tells you a TV can control your mind does this make it true or even remotely credible?

As for old Al Crowley, his ties to freemasonry are tenuous at best, hes never been a recognised member never mind "initiated to the highest levels" any so called lodges he attended have never been officialy recognised by the masons and if you read back you'll easily find that freemasons of the time where highly vocal about this, we keep meticulous records and archives that date back centuries and can easily tell who is, was and was not a freemason.

If your really interested in Alister Crowley though i suggest you check out "The great beast" by John Symonds, after Al died he left everything to the man, regardless of how highly critical John had became towards his practices, its by far the best autobiography ive read on the man, although it does tend to be a little hostile and biased towards him.

The author actualy knew the man, and unlike the crackpot you resourced isnt a registered sex offender living in Guam.
He knew the man, was set as the executor of his Last Will and Testements (not that there was much in the way of estate as Al died bankrupt) and knew enough to know that Alister was very simmilar to Marilyn Manson, ie: all facepaint, misdirection and bluster. An easy target for all the worlds sins. Not unlike Ozzy Ozbourne back in the day.

Unlike Marilyn and Ozzy however Al peaked in an era where anything that didnt strictly conform to social norms was shunned and sensationalised, an easy target for the rampant rumour mill. Either of his modern day counterparts would have been equaly made a spectacle of in the 1920s, hell even in modern day the rumours surrounding all three are insurmountable they all made a great livings from rumours, fantasy and misdirection.
Rumour and fingerpointing no more makes Brian Warner responsible for Columbine than they make Edward Crowley the devil incarnate.

As for the list of masons LMAO Obama? thats pure rumour and if you do some homework you'll find it originates from another nutcase. Namely Leo Young (aka Leo Zagami) hardly a reputable source.
Whilst there are a fair few on the list that are accurate, theyre hardly mindblowing, take Lyndon B Johnson, he WAS a mason, only an entered apprentice however so hes hardly part of this major "inner circle of world controlling puppet masters" dont you think if the masons had any real desire in manipulating world affairs they would make sure a US president was up there in the ranks?

As for earning the 33rd degree... do you have any concept of just how hard a task obtaining the Scottish Rite actualy is? theyre not just handed out overnight, it takes decades of work and effort to achieve, you need to be a Master Mason for starers just to be elegible and then obtain serious reputation amongst your community and indeed your masonic peerage.

Georgie boy Bush??? come on! seriously? Certainly not a mason. Its only been speculated on due to his inauguration ceremony where he planted his hand on the same bible that was used to inaugurate Washington (who was actualy a mason) This places Georgie in the same category as an entire list of presidents who had no masonic ties.

Some due dilligence on your part would be welcome here, i mean copying and pasting any old list without cross referencing is absurd, if you wish to post a resource by all means do so, but atleast have the gumption to do a little fact checking beforehand. A simple google for instance turns up almost instantly that of all the presidents of the US only 14 of them had any ties to masonry.

I find these "arrivals" foilhatters to be absurd, ooooh nooo people r be controlan mah mind! its easy to see exactly why this would be so easy, the tinfoil hat brigade never seem to be able to do any kind of real homework outside of dubious irreputable postings where as normal people who can actualy operate a browser and use that old arcane thing called a library can actualy see the huge gaping plotholes in these proposed crackpot theories.

[z786]

would you care to explain the potholes?

[irfy]

Done my homework

Didnt read the link you posted, didnt really have to as a little cross referencing on David J. Stewart instantly brought up all maner of things, put simply the guy is a headcase and anything he prints should be taken with bus tonnage of salt.

Hes even been indicted in 2009 for sex with a minor, not someone i would consider credible by any sense of the word.

"but seriously do you call freemasonary a religion"
Most definately NOT reread my post and you'll see that i stated a number of times that freemasonry has almost nothing to do with religion, in fact the only time the topic is ever brought up is during induction.

I find it more and more amusing that people insist on quoting people without doing any kind of due dilligence on the people they quote from. To reitterate if an icelandic poet tells you a TV can control your mind does this make it true or even remotely credible?

As for old Al Crowley, his ties to freemasonry are tenuous at best, hes never been a recognised member never mind "initiated to the highest levels" any so called lodges he attended have never been officialy recognised by the masons and if you read back you'll easily find that freemasons of the time where highly vocal about this, we keep meticulous records and archives that date back centuries and can easily tell who is, was and was not a freemason.

If your really interested in Alister Crowley though i suggest you check out "The great beast" by John Symonds, after Al died he left everything to the man, regardless of how highly critical John had became towards his practices, its by far the best autobiography ive read on the man, although it does tend to be a little hostile and biased towards him.

The author actualy knew the man, and unlike the crackpot you resourced isnt a registered sex offender living in Guam.
He knew the man, was set as the executor of his Last Will and Testements (not that there was much in the way of estate as Al died bankrupt) and knew enough to know that Alister was very simmilar to Marilyn Manson, ie: all facepaint, misdirection and bluster. An easy target for all the worlds sins. Not unlike Ozzy Ozbourne back in the day.

Unlike Marilyn and Ozzy however Al peaked in an era where anything that didnt strictly conform to social norms was shunned and sensationalised, an easy target for the rampant rumour mill. Either of his modern day counterparts would have been equaly made a spectacle of in the 1920s, hell even in modern day the rumours surrounding all three are insurmountable they all made a great livings from rumours, fantasy and misdirection.
Rumour and fingerpointing no more makes Brian Warner responsible for Columbine than they make Edward Crowley the devil incarnate.

As for the list of masons LMAO Obama? thats pure rumour and if you do some homework you'll find it originates from another nutcase. Namely Leo Young (aka Leo Zagami) hardly a reputable source.
Whilst there are a fair few on the list that are accurate, theyre hardly mindblowing, take Lyndon B Johnson, he WAS a mason, only an entered apprentice however so hes hardly part of this major "inner circle of world controlling puppet masters" dont you think if the masons had any real desire in manipulating world affairs they would make sure a US president was up there in the ranks?

As for earning the 33rd degree... do you have any concept of just how hard a task obtaining the Scottish Rite actualy is? theyre not just handed out overnight, it takes decades of work and effort to achieve, you need to be a Master Mason for starers just to be elegible and then obtain serious reputation amongst your community and indeed your masonic peerage.

Georgie boy Bush??? come on! seriously? Certainly not a mason. Its only been speculated on due to his inauguration ceremony where he planted his hand on the same bible that was used to inaugurate Washington (who was actualy a mason) This places Georgie in the same category as an entire list of presidents who had no masonic ties.

Some due dilligence on your part would be welcome here, i mean copying and pasting any old list without cross referencing is absurd, if you wish to post a resource by all means do so, but atleast have the gumption to do a little fact checking beforehand. A simple google for instance turns up almost instantly that of all the presidents of the US only 14 of them had any ties to masonry.
gre
I find these "arrivals" foilhatters to be absurd, ooooh nooo people r be controlan mah mind! its easy to see exactly why this would be so easy, the tinfoil hat brigade never seem to be able to do any kind of real homework outside of dubious irreputable postings where as normal people who can actualy operate a browser and use that old arcane thing called a library can actualy see the huge gaping plotholes in these proposed crackpot theories.

I had 1st hand experience with the Elite, I didnt ask for it nor did i want to join them. They used a spirit (Jinn) on me to aid there proposal. Im not a crackpot nor are the hundreds of thousands of americans that believe 911 was a inside job.
700+ structural engineers demanding the truth there not crackpots surely.

Power, Money and Fame all in exchange for my soul. The only homework i did for the last 10 years is to find out why me. Im a nobody, nothin i could possibly offer. "The arrivals" unravelled most of the mystery for me.

It doesnt take a genious or even a web browser to see that there something terribly wrong in the world right now.

Problem is theres to many people that believe " DO WHAT THOU WILST " this is what blinds you from the truth the invisible veil over your eyes. I know! ive been there done it.

Not anymore tho when i realised the elite do lucifers job leading the people astray. Its obvious the devil does exist, The elite, Zionists, freemasons all followers of the Kuabala in some shape or form are paving the way for the anti-christ.

Not to mention my little run in with the spirit (jinn) since then my hairs gone mostly white.

I know without a shadow of a doubt whats goin on i believe in the untouched original bible the taurah & the noble quraan. All which warn against the anti christ.

God exists he loves us, his creation we just need to have the thirst to find him. When you do you will feel the true inner peace. You will enjoy doing good and enjoining others.

Peace out

[chroma]

would you care to explain the potholes?

Ive been doing so, all throughout this thread. In this case its more like a father telling a son; "Don't play with fire, its hot." Until the kid actualy sticks his hand into a fire and gets burned he never really understands.

Much the same as Philosophy students are told at the begining of the course to find the truth for themselves and to rely on their own critical thinking over any text.

Take one of Zenos dichotomies, he interpreted a race between Achillies and a tortoise thusly:

If Achillies gives a tortoise a 100m head start, and then they both begin the race at a constant velocity (achillies being the faster of the two) before he can overtake the tortoise he must make it half way to 100m.
By the time hes made it to 50m the tortoise has also moved forward meaning before Achillies can overtake it this time he must cover half of this new disance, by the time hes made it to that distance he must cover half of the new distance ad infinitum.

This means that Achillies must travel an infinate number of steps just to catch up to the tortoise and can therefore never logicaly overtake it and win the race regardless of how fast Achillies runs.

This is of course a simple paradox and the fallacy is easily spotted by thinking criticaly about the problem, but they do get more and more complex. If a student is incapable or too lazy to think for themselves its easy to fall into the trap of believing that just because a poolball is red then all ravens must be black.

Take the axiom "All ravens are black"
Then by inducting logic you can easily infer that "All non black things are non ravens"

In purest logic this simply states that if X = Y then -Y = -X is also logicaly true.

Taking it further you can state that "My pet raven is indeed black"
Which supports the hypothesis that all ravens are black.
Just as you can state "Look this red (thus not black) thing is a poolball(thus non raven)
So by logical inference and induction just by seeing that a poolball is red you can logicaly prove that all ravens are black.

Its simple wordplay which is nothing more than these conspiricy theories proclaim, notice the heavy use of inductive logic and inferance throughout the entire work?
This is good because it actively engages the audience and makes them think inside the terms of these logical fallacies.
The viewer feels like hes drawing his own conclusions yet hes not actualy thinking criticaly about the situation or subject whatsoever.

But because the viewer has done the work inside a limited framework he can easily draw the conclusion (no matter how absurd) that hes happened upon the truth.

The only way to accurate truth is by really thinking out the problems proposed, rewatch the drivel by all means and every so often pick it apart piece by piece and question not only the validity of a statement proposed but also ask WHY your being told it to begin with. What particular use does each statement provide?
Could it perhaps to be to guide your thought process and place you inside a logical fallacy? More often than not this happens to be the case.

You dont need to be a genius or have any familiarity with philosophy or sociology to see that what your being told doesnt always add up. Add to this that throughout the garbage are carefully inserted statements of truth to further muddy the waters making decyphering exactly whats being proposed even more difficult.

Most people however are sheep and dont take the time out to actualy question whats being shown or told to them and are therefore easily misdirected into presuming assumptions to be concrete truths.

So i suggest people start playing with fire and figure out the truth for themselves, someone spoonfeeding it to you seldom cuts it.

[z786]

@chroma
have u actually seen all of the arivals?

i came across some interestin t-shirts in the next directory 2day, care 2 see?

see at the top of the t-shirt on this 1
Buy Grey Print T-Shirt from the Next UK online shop

this 1 is more obvious
Buy Brown Print T-Shirt from the Next UK online shop

[nara]

@chroma
have u actually seen all of the arivals?

You keep asking people that question, as if somehow it's going to convince anybody who watches it.

It's fifth-rate nonsense.

[racin-snake]

You keep asking people that question, as if somehow it's going to convince anybody who watches it.

It's fifth-rate nonsense.

there is in fact a lot of this type of symbolism all over the place
in music the media in general.
your defence is quite adamant .....then my friend who's spoon feeding you this shit ?

but i have to ask ... do you really know what it takes to become a 33rd degree mason?

my answer to you is .. you will never know
you are the lower echelon of the power ..so inevitably you are the ground troops
the upper echelon will never reveal to you the true agenda
do you think this is odd?
secret society's are secretive for a reason
secrecy hides the true agenda
do you think that people in power are influenced by there own conscience and good will
nope ...again a subtle note when people in power are involved in secret society's there will always be the stigma and therefore will never be above the assumption they are doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason
IE tony blair 33rd degree mason walked blindly into iraq following the assumption of weapons of mass destruction
there was none
also secret society's are exactly what the are pre ported to be
SECRET and why ?
secret = hidden agendas which in my opinion and JFK was trying to put a stop too
and we know how that ended up?
secret is the reason why people in power stay and get into power
please explain the full agendas of freemasonry ?
and then explain why it has to be done behind a veil of secrecy

my questions are quite viable and if you care to explain i would be enlightened and therefore less sceptical of the full thing
thanking you ....

[z786]

thankyou

heres a speech from the legend, the one that the freemasons didnt like
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces]YouTube - ‪President John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech version 2‬‎[/ame]

also heres a song from a freemason
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSbA1I7-3ds]YouTube - ‪Stonecutters Song‬‎[/ame]

and if you care to take a read
Jay-Z's "Run This Town" and the Occult Connections | The Vigilant Citizen

this ties in jayz to be a 33rd degree freemason
it also ties him in with alistar crowley

cant get any better than that

and if you still dont wanna knw, neither do i

@nara
evry1 has their opinion, and u rightly hav yours

[chroma]

...please explain the full agendas of freemasonry ?
and then explain why it has to be done behind a veil of secrecy

my questions are quite viable and if you care to explain i would be enlightened and therefore less sceptical of the full thing
thanking you ....

Ok, ok i admit it, Master Masons actualy are shapeshifting reptilians from the fourth dimension, hell bent on global domination. worse still they're all Jewish!

Your questions are indeed viable though.
To figure the agenda and need for secrecy you need to go back in history to a time when masons where actualy masons, this is to say they actualy made things from stone.
Masons back in the day where classed as the elite of the uneducated labour, they where held in awe by society. And tolerated by the higher powers as a nessisary evil i guess.
Who isnt impressed when they contemplate that someone managed to carve intricate details into a multi ton block of sandstone and then risk his life getting it into place on a cathedral roof?

As for actual reading and writing? Masons where lucky if they had even so much as a rudimentary grasp, the only required intelect was the ability to follow the pictures in a blueprint and hopefully not chisel off a finger or youd be limited to counting to nine. It was also of use to be able to knock out a symbol on your stonework, a quick symbol acted as your signature and ensured that you got paid for your job. (if you look at old cobblestone curbs for instance you can still see masonic symbols, this was the guys way of proving he carved it and getting paid)

Back in the day there was no "welfare state" you didnt work you didnt eat, and a masons job being as it was, was prone to accidents that could lay a man up until his broken arm or leg healed. Not that it would get the chance as both his family and himself would starve long before this was able to occur. Life was hard. Its not difficult to see that if you got together with your other masons and paid in a portion of your wage there would be enough in the pot to feed your brother and his family should the worst happen. Its easier doing a dangerous job if your certain your family will be looked after should you wind up underneath your collapsed stonework.

This requires a few prequisites:
1:TRUST! You need to trust your brothers, lest one figure that that big pile of money would beter serve in his own selfish needs than the good of the brotherhoods.
2: SECRECY! Letting the rest of the world know that your sitting on a mountain of gold is generaly regarded as a very stupid idea, this leaves you open to all kinds of problems like theft and taxation.

Now there are complications involved with this, you need people who are able to write and count to maintain ledgers and account for everyones stipend, keep track of memberships and the like, you also need to reinforce trust and educate on ethics and morals.
Its worth noting that back in the day if you wanted an education you joined the clergy, they taught the plebs how to read, write and count.

They also happened to be your major employer, churches all over europe demanded places of worship crafted in intricate detail filled with nice shiny statues and pillars and where willing to pay for the priviledge, they also offered tax breaks on work conducted on behalf of the church. The church was very open to having a cooperating workorce, realising instantly that its easier to speak to a groups spokesperson than it is to send messengers to all corners of the globe to get that statue of the madonna you so badly desire.

As masons already have an eye for symbols, pictagrams and so forth, why not use these to teach members? Learning anything is easy if its put in a context people can understand and early masons cottoned on to this, This opens you to another problem, the church where less than shy about executing people who preached heresy.
This is easily avoided by using psudo religious overtones in your setup, this is good policy if your not all that into getting burned alive as a heretic.

So to recap, set up a welfare system for a workforce, realise that people keep stealing your treasure, bring in a system to that enforces trust and maintains secrecy, realise its open to exploitation and corruption by the educated people fiddling the books and bring in a system to replenish the ranks to maintain checks and balances against it, the world being what it is and people having the understanding they do, use psudo religious terminology and heavy usage of symbolism to do so. Masons can understand it, non masons would be essentaly clueless.
This isnt to say they closed ranks, i mean what better way of getting a cheap bolster than inviting your local smith to join the brotherhood and recieve benefits?
Eventualy local tradesmen where openly welcomed, a quick handshake and you get a discount, handshakes worked better than carrying cards for understandable reasons.

It wasnt long before the gentry of the day twigged that the masons had a good system in place to support each other that provided obvious perks for membership and began to join the ranks around the 16th century, this became fasionable and probably provided great dinner conversation.
It continued along till the point where there where more freemasons than stonemasons, the public perception gradualy began to change, becoming wary of the secrecy, which at this point was more a traditional upkeep than a method of defence, a way to be a part of something.
As time marched on there became less demand for stonemasonry, achievable results could be made from mouldings, bricks, concrete, plaster and facades. Stone masonry became a dying art form and the gentry took over,why pay a workforce to slowly cut stone and erect a building, when you can get a bunch of labour to slap preformed bricks up in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost?

Instead of helping an injured or dead stonemason funds could now be used for other things, like charity, plowing into education and so forth. Sure we still help out our brothers but injury and mortality rates have greatly decreased over the years.

Is there really a need for secrecy nowadays? Not really. It is however a nice tradition. If people fear it then thats their issue not ours, its a centuries old tradition and one that allows us to feel part of something truly special. Its great being able to walk into a room full of complete stangers and pick out people you know you can trust.
All thats kept secret are our rituals and its easy to see why, with the rise of the internet keeping secrets has become an impossibility nowadays anyway, theres plenty of valid resources out there that will tell you everything you need to know about freemasonry.
Good luck telling it apart for the drivel from the tinfoil hat brigade spout though
Symbolism helps here, but why you should feel the need is beyond me, if you really want to know then go to your local lodge and join up, reading too far ahead is boring anyway, why read the last chapter of a book before you've experience the previous ones?
Our rituals may seem obscure, outdated and downright bizarre in some cases but you learn something from each one and theyr'e enjoyable to take part in.

As for our agenda? same as it always was, to help any brother in need and provide charity and aid where we can.
If people wish to demonise that then so be it.

[wormz]

i would like to join freemasonry. i heard you got to ask one to be one.

[racin-snake]

this doesn't answer any of the questions ?
this is a romanticised cut and paste
can you tell us why there is so much secrecy and why a society in modern times needs this ?
none of the stuff you have posted makes any sense in a society for over 100 years
tradition does not dictate this level of secrecy does it?
as for joining the masons
na ide rather not thanking you
also rituals fun education?
don't think so mate it sounds worse than what you call the "foil hat brigade "
not much worse than i regard the freemasons in truth
a bunch of outdated sphincters which claim great things yet do nothing in actuality
and their secrecy provides the question and answers too in all honesty i cannot imagine a realistic person thinking that the rest of the world is mad because they come to conclusions that this society could dispel but either wont or will not for another reason ?
and then call us foil hatters for being suspicious...if you have a question do you ask for an answer?
if no answer is provided and dispelled then what conclusion does that bring to you?
you also claim charity and education as a good deed the masonic order (in my opinion sounds like a religious overtone )

so again what does it take to become a 30 32 and 33 degree mason ?
and why is it that in a modern world does it have to be secret if there's no hidden agenda ?
i dont think the history lesson is what i asked for just a simple why and how
any chance of a reason or answer

also i did not mention your validity on freemasonry being a religion
but any chance of explaining why its deemed as having kabalistic overtones too
just for the foil hatters mate
thanks
here is a definition of religion as is understood by many ---any similarities here ?

:Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.[1]
Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth, religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws and ethics and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience. The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures, with continental differences.
The term "religion" refers both to the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system",[2] but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.
Religion is often described as a communal system for the coherence of belief focusing on a system of thought, unseen being, person, or object, that is considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine, or of the highest truth. Moral codes, practices, values, institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures are often traditionally associated with the core belief, and these may have some overlap with concepts in secular philosophy. Religion is also often described as a "way of life" or a life stance.