I called it, Uncharted 2 sweeps up at GOTY awards.

[Raven]

Though many websites such as IGN and Gamespot have yet to hold their GOTY awards, Spike just had their GOTY awards show for the public to vote, and Uncharted 2 won Best PS3 Game, Best Graphics, and Game Of The Year - surprisingly in a straight popularity contest against the top selling juggernaut that is Modern Warfare 2 - so what does that say ? Says to me that Uncharted 2 will wind up selling a lot of copies, it also tells me that people will buy stuff just for the name attached to it especially when it's advertised to ~~~~ - like Modern Warfare 2 and like Halo3.

I have to say though that I'm pleased for Naughty Dog because they've always made good games without fail for the last 12 years or more from the original Crash Bandicoot on PSX to Jak&Daxter on PS2 all the way up to Uncharted on the PS3 and they're finally getting their just rewards for that, and personally I'm delighted with all the praise and awards that Uncharted 2 is receiving as well, because I played the original back when it first came out and when nobody gave a ~~~~ about it including me but when I played the demo pre release I just knew the game really was something else and that it never really got the praise or attention that it deserved, right game wrong time if you will, because nobody was paying attention. So I feel somewhat vindicated I have to say, and the GOTY award couldn't have gone to a better franchise in my honest opinion.

So now that the popularity contest vote is over with you just know that Uncharted 2 is walking away with the critic's GOTY awards just by it's review scores alone. Could well be a clean sweep for Naughty Dog. And I bet they announce Uncharted 3 for the first time at E3 next year.

[calvin plummer]

will not bite, will not bite - must resist

[Raven]

will not bite, will not bite - must resist

Bite if you want, fact is I was right!

[calvin plummer]

I'll be good, but seriously dude the Spike awards? They're the gaming equivilent of the Richard & Judy book club awards - we're not talking the Noble prize for literature here. Still I've little doubt it will win more prestigious awards (Incidentally the one UK website I've time for has the game at number 4 and as we all know its a very subjective thing). I would however go so far as to say it's the 3rd best PS3 exclusive so far in my opinion - behind Disgaea and Wipeout HD.

Peace

[Raven]

I'll be good, but seriously dude the Spike awards? They're the gaming equivilent of the Richard & Judy book club awards - we're not talking the Noble prize for literature here. Still I've little doubt it will win more prestigious awards (Incidentally the one UK website I've time for has the game at number 4 and as we all know its a very subjective thing). I would however go so far as to say it's the 3rd best PS3 exclusive so far in my opinion - behind Disgaea and Wipeout HD.

Peace

Spike awards is purely public vote as far as I know of, read into that what you will....but Uncharted 2 is still sweeping up in the GOTY awards elsewhere as it's won IGN's GOTY award on the PS3 and logically can't possibly lose out to Modern Warfare 2 for overall GOTY on their as MW2 didn't win GOTY on either platform on IGN so how can it possibly win overall GOTY ?

There's another website that Uncharted 2 won GOTY for but I can't remember the name, C4G or something like that - so it's basically running away with the GOTY awards just like I said it would, shame the sales aren't huge at the moment like but that only goes to prove that people will buy things in droves just for the name attatched to it even if it's utter shit especially if it's an FPS as is the case with Halo, despite the fact that from Halo to MW2 to Killzone2 it's all the same old same old, at least Uncharted is something a little different.

People say Uncharted 2 is unoriginal but that's bullshit because it's the blend of "Gears" cover system and "Prince Of Persia" platforming topped off by awesome voice acting and graphics that makes the game completely unique. People also say it's a linear game as though it's a valid point of complaint , but I call BS again because it's no less and not really any more linear than Gears Of War or Tomb Raider that the game is so regularly and unfairly compared against and it's definitely no more or less linear than any third person action game that isn't an open world sandbox game like GTA or Saints Row, because apart from that they're all linear. So the people that hate on Uncharted for being linear are just being dumb - and for me the people that hate on Uncharted for being linear means they simply cannot find fault with them games because they are that good, and you have to admit to complain about a game being linear it's a little ~~~~in thin!

The fact is that of all the things that people can usually complain about regarding games, the fact that they only complain about the linearity or simply say the game isn't for them, just shows how good Uncharted really is when you think about it....

[calvin plummer]

Man you didn't disagree that Disgaea is better? More agreement. I'm way in the minority on that one. Oh by the by I do think its better than mw2, any halo (nothing has beaten golden eye on console yet in fps terms ) or killzone. The linear debate is an interesting one and worthy of a thread to itself. I'm a fence sitter by and large. Horses for courses really, the appearance of freedom is more important I'd say

[Raven]

Man you didn't disagree that Disgaea is better?

I can't honestly say because I've never played Disgaea, but it's an RPG I think so I doubt I'd enjoy it more than Uncharted - both of them - are without doubt the best games I've played since the Ocarina Of Time.

nothing has beaten golden eye on console yet in fps terms

This I completely agree with, I've said that very same thing many times before. For me it's the maturity of that game like it's not a shoot everything that moves simple game - but it has a brain and a point to it. You have to think in them games - shoot all the alarms so they can't be raised, should I go in quietly or all guns blazing ? For me in terms of raw gameplay and feel not to mention the mission structure of the campaign mode Goldeneye and Perfect Dark haven't been touched to this day. Though obviously AI and Presentation side of things has come on leaps and bounds. Though let's not forget what game introduced good multiplayer FPS to consoles ? It wasn't Halo, it was Goldeneye - in effect anyone that enjoys Modern Warfare 2 multiplayer right now has Goldeneye to thank!

[calvin plummer]

Now this is potentially high treason but I actually prefer wind waker, now there's a statement certain zelda zealots would stamp all over. Disgaea is more strategy than role player but it is a marmite game; it's either loved or hated. In terms of shooters I'd have metroid above this generation too. I'm curious fzero or wipeout in your opinion?

[Raven]

Now this is potentially high treason but I actually prefer wind waker, now there's a statement certain zelda zealots would stamp all over. Disgaea is more strategy than role player but it is a marmite game; it's either loved or hated. In terms of shooters I'd have metroid above this generation too. I'm curious fzero or wipeout in your opinion?

True but for me I'd say who gives a ~~~~, to me Ocarina and Wind Waker were both awesome. I also agree that Metroid is one of the best FPS games this gen, or last gen in my opinion - but then again as much as I love Metroid Prime it isn't exactly a straight FPS but then that's why I like it so much, it's not a cap everything that moves shooter it's one of them games that has brains - to be truthful Halo could do with taking notes!

To be honest I'm more of an F Zero person than a Wipeout person, only because I've played F Zero more in the past and only recently played my first Wipeout game with WipeoutHD - haven't played it since.....to be honest I'm more into MotorStorm than anything else when it comes to racers and there was a time I considered Burnout3 Takedown the best racing game out there, but not anymore though it's still a classic, the soundtrack was really catchy - I thought Burnout Paradise was awful, they changed up the core structure of the game that seems to have worked but I can't say I'm too pleased, my main criticism is the fact they took out track racing Championship modes completely and I only hope they put that into the next Burnout and a Crash Mode to at least satisfy the Burnout purists of what few there seem to be......but it's safe to say I'll be checking out Gran Turismo5 though.

[calvin plummer]

I'd edge towards fzero as well and I'd wager it's even faster than even wipeout hd but I do love wipeout; I'd say the original was perhaps the single title that most made gaming cool on the original ps1 (i'm not sure thats a good thing but I still sulk that the terraces are gone from footie). One day i'm going to count how many times you diss halo and i'm really not a fan but God it bothers you. Why? Oh and metropolis street racer on the dreamcast to me is the best driving game. Fast, innovative (even gta takes a nodding swipe at it) and stunning. Gt is excellent till the races start, some of the worst drives AI ever. Motorstorm is a laugh but its never really hooked me

[Raven]

Oh and metropolis street racer on the dreamcast to me is the best driving game. Fast, innovative (even gta takes a nodding swipe at it) and stunning. Gt is excellent till the races start, some of the worst drives AI ever. Motorstorm is a laugh but its never really hooked me

Metropolis Street Racer wasn't that basically just Project Gotham Racing ? Before it had the title change obviously.

Have to be honest I never noticed driver AI the last GT game I played was GT3 A Spec when I was about 17.

MotorStorm is great for me, it's got a bit of everything and the graphics are phenomenal and so is the soundtrack considering you can have your own songs.

One day i'm going to count how many times you diss halo and i'm really not a fan but God it bothers you. Why?

Considering you know as well as I do that the game sucks my public statement of this sure does bother you some, do you work for Bungee by any chance ?

Okay I'll try and keep this short, it's partly pure resentment because Halo always gets wrongly credited for things it never pioneered, just made famous, and there's a big difference between the two obviously - dual analogue control being the main culprit of the inaccurate credit. But the main reason I dislike Halo is because it's uber popular and yet the game is pure meh honestly, the weapons all suck and they're always the same handful of weapons. Same enemies, that all look like big sex toys or midget ice creams, and they let children play this game ?! But yeah the game is just shit, I don't know what else to tell you, it's uber popular because it's had the shit marketed out of it. But most people with sense know Halo sucks, then there's people like yourself who no offense but you know it sucks and yet you dare not slate it publicly for some reason.....Oh and what's all that ridiculous jumping 30ft in the air all about, it plays just like Unreal Tournament. And the death animations are non existent too. And this is a game that's supposed to have Havok ? Honestly I just hate the game. It's so overrated. I'm trying to think of the name of a really average shooter but I'll bet it doesn't play worse than Halo. I wouldn't mind asking you why you think Uncharted is overrated, but if you say cos it's linear I might just shoot you give proper reasons at least.....

[calvin plummer]

Ok I'll have a bash at an honest review of Uncharted and Halo, no doubt you'll take exception to both but what’s christmas without an argument?

I'll begin with Uncharted being overrated - Now bare in mind I'm starting with a baseline score of mid 90s (which to me there are maybe 5 titles in the history of gaming that deserve such a score) - so maybe I'm just a tight ass but instantly it fails there - as does any title since Super Metroid, with the possible exceptions of SF4 and Okami.......

Next comes the question of it being Linear, you might not like it but I think there is an element of critique here which is worth mentioning. There has long been a debate about should games follow movies, I've always been on the neigh side believing it important that games develop as a medium in their own right rather than simply apping movies. It is the freedom, the choices and immersion that can set games apart from films. Uncharted basically follows a very linear script with little if any freedom for the player. You do it the developers way or you die. There is no room for initiative or creative thought. At this point I am however prepared to admit that within the premise that they operate from they do it better than anybody else, and thank god for the lack of QTE - something I've rapidly become bored of (take note God of War its old old hat). I will however give it a nod for some fairly decent characterisation, something games do need to learn from books and films, also thank god its not yet another bald space marine walking down yet more dimly lit corridors; Halo, Killzone, Quake etc etc

My main problem with Uncharted is its complete lack of innovation. There is absolutely nothing new, nothing that will change the face of video games. It simply won't be remembered or influence generations of developers to come in the way other landmark titles have. What it does superbly though is polish everything to the Nth degree.

My only other gripe is that it's too easy, I like to get bitch slapped around a while and have a real sense of achievement when I progress but that’s my old school up bringing. Uncharted hands it to you on the plate.

In summary, what it does it does better than anybody else, what it adds to games as a serious entertainment medium is little or nothing.

I could write much more but I'll just bore you, now onto Halo and I'll only look at Halo as with the exception of the multiplayer all its various sequels have been average at best.

Halo was the Xboxs first (and possibly only) must have premium title. This was accomplished largely through very clever marketing, something the games industry is notoriously bad at. The first half of the game superficially appeared to tick all the boxes: the freedom, graphics, AI, the general scope and cinematic feel of the game appeared excellent, however once you began to look a little more closely at the title it had a by numbers feelings to it.

Ultimately it's left us little but the shield system but there in lies its trick - it fools people, much in the same way uncharted does. It's polished and shiny but all that glitters isn't gold. Uncharted 2 at least remains a quality game throughout - Halo is just a huge mess past the half way point, it becomes derivative, bland, sections repeating themselves and a hugely unsatisfactory conclusion. Oh and to be blunt who cared if the master chief died? Sympathising with a character in a FPS is tricky but if Half Life can manage it, I'm not going to let Halo off the hook for failing.

Lastly its mulitplayer - not my flavour at all but with a decent set of friends it holds its own. So I'd rather play Uncharted, I'd even have it in my top 5 for the year but to be hitting scores in the mid 90s I'd actually like something more substantive than glitter.

I'm boring myself now so I'll stop, but I'll score the two games just to open myself up to more criticism, Halo 74%, Uncharted 2 86%..............

[Raven]

Okay bare with me here, I'm going through your post bit by bit and making observations in this post as I go through yours....from the top;

I'll begin with Uncharted being overrated - Now bare in mind I'm starting with a baseline score of mid 90s (which to me there are maybe 5 titles in the history of gaming that deserve such a score) - so maybe I'm just a tight ass but instantly it fails there - as does any title since Super Metroid, with the possible exceptions of SF4 and Okami.......

This obviously is purely your opinion, not a problem, except that what you're basically saying there is that any game except for the three you mentioned scoring similar or above instantly gets discredited because it's scoring the same or higher than your personal favorite games. It's inevitable as time goes on. And a completely unfair criticism on the actual game in question, blame the critics as it were....

thank god for the lack of QTE - something I've rapidly become bored of (take note God of War its old old hat). I will however give it a nod for some fairly decent characterisation, something games do need to learn from books and films, also thank god its not yet another bald space marine walking down yet more dimly lit corridors; Halo, Killzone, Quake etc etc

My main problem with Uncharted is its complete lack of innovation. There is absolutely nothing new, nothing that will change the face of video games. It simply won't be remembered or influence generations of developers to come in the way other landmark titles have

I agree with the first paragraph quoted I'm in the same boat there, that's the only thing that worries me about Heavy Rain is it's basically whether they can get the QTE right and make it immersive somehow since the game is full of it. Second paragraph however I disagree with, because Uncharted is in actual fact more innovative than most games out today, just 1 example is the way in which the voice acting is done on those games, having the voice actors mo-cap and perform the scene in the moment as opposed to the typical get them in a studio 1 at a time disjointed phoned in performances we usually get. And that's how they'll all do it soon, because the result speaks for itself and it's not rocket science. You get 2 people acting out the scene in a room together and it's the quality and flow of the scene is bound to be a lot more naturalistic and dynamic. Another area of innovation is the blend as I like to call it, the blend of the "Gears" cover based shooting and the "PS2 Prince Of Persia" style platforming is very innovative, nobody else has tapped into it and it's so much fun. That was half the reason I found the original Uncharted so much fun was because it was completely refreshing to play through, which shows how innovative it actually is.

My only other gripe is that it's too easy, I like to get bitch slapped around a while and have a real sense of achievement when I progress but that’s my old school up bringing. Uncharted hands it to you on the plate.

In summary, what it does it does better than anybody else, what it adds to games as a serious entertainment medium is little or nothing.

Crushing Mode is for you, trust me it ain't easy! But in terms of the puzzles and things it's meant to be a game where you don't get stuck for hours running around in circles in an "if you can't find it, grind it" fashion, it's supposed to keep you moving forward. And for me, it's a better game for it. Tomb Raider should take the hint and they might actually bang out a good game....

As for what Uncharted brings to gaming as a serious entertainment medium as I said it was and is purpose built to be something a little bit different, it's also one of them games where someone can play it and the person next to them can have just as much fun watching, thanks to the voice acting and interesting characters. Doesn't get much more validly entertaining than that if you ask me. Uncharted is not overrated, if anything it's under appreciated and I've said that before, but it does deserve every high mark and award it's currently receiving. It should have gotten it in 2007 too but not too many paid attention to anything the PS3 was doing well back then.....

Ultimately Halo left us little but the shield system but there in lies its trick - it fools people, much in the same way uncharted does. It's polished and shiny but all that glitters isn't gold. Uncharted 2 at least remains a quality game throughout

I agree with all about the Halo part except for this part about it fooling people like uncharted does - okay first off, Uncharted doesn't fool anyone and you just said it's a good game and Halo isn't. Secondly, Halo is a highly overrated FPS and there's a multitude of reasons why, most of them I've already mentioned. And lastly the only claims to fame that Halo genuinely deserves is A) regenerating health shields B) first FPS game on consoles to get the controls right - minus dual analogue controls it wasn't the first there I think TimeSplitters on PS2 was C) it did have a more cinematic feel than most shooters of that time. At least on consoles.

But the game was and is still a 1 trick pony and it doesn't even do that 1 trick particularly well. These days it doesn't offer anything new. It (the developers and Microsoft) just laze it away and cash in on the name hence ODST especially. One of these days you'll look in a dictionary and sooner or later it won't give a definition as such of the word overrated, it'll simply say Halo.

[calvin plummer]

By the by, I'd not even give Gears that much credit for the cover system, time crisis is the first I can think of that used it but I could be wrong...........

[Raven]

Yeah the only reason I mentioned Gears with regards to the cover based shooting, is because Gears was the first game to do it really well not to mention the most popular. But the fact is that Gears wasn't the first game to have cover based shooting in a 3rd person shooter, that honor goes to a PS2 game called Kill.Switch. But I mentioned Gears for familiarities sake. Prince Of Persia on the PS2 however is it's own deal. Which Uncharted ripped along with good cover based shooting system and shaped it into it's own brilliant form.

You say Uncharted isn't innovative or that it's a copycat game because it took from other games, but it isn't really because all they used was Gears style cover based shooting and Prince Of Persia style platforming. And they made a game slightly similar but in a lot of ways totally different to Tomb Raider, but done in a much better way than any Tomb Raider ever. And most certainly is everything that Tomb Raider itself should have evolved into being but obviously hasn't. That's not a lot of elements to be basing your entire game on. Because you still have the characters, storyline, dialogue, voice acting, graphics, set pieces, puzzles and pacing to do entirely on your own and make it good and all of that is Uncharted's own and 80% of the entire game at least - when you think about it they only took two core gameplay mechanics that worked well in other games and put it into theirs.

They obviously looked at where Tomb Raider always fell down and failed - the platforming and the combat. Or in other words what you do throughout 80% of the game. You can say Uncharted isn't innovative all you want but you should be giving credit where credit is due - they (Uncharted devs, Naughty Dog) were smart, creative, intuitive and yes innovative all along.....besides by your way of thinking, I have just as much call to say that Gears Of War (halo and graw), SF IV (tekken etc), Bayonetta (devil may cry), Halo (goldeneye and half life), Shadow Complex (super metroid), Call Of Duty (medal of honor) and yes Okami (zelda twilight princess) - all aren't innovative because they all took large parts of themselves from the other games before it that I mentioned in brackets there - all even more so than Uncharted save for maybe Okami. But I don't do that, because it's a bullcrap statement and way of thinking really and entirely ignorant to the large amount of innovation and creativity that them games actually did bring to the table.

Oh and let's not forget Infinite Ward's roaring success gamble of a switch up in going from WWII to Modern Warfare, now all of a sudden EA's Medal Of Honor is doing the exact same thing for their next game.....but still should be creative in it's own way and hopefully should be a great game.

Starting to see the point ?