Newbie - help please.

[ramjet]

I take your point mate. As I said I am new to this and just trying to figure out the best/easiest way for me. Im just struggling to find the info to start my 'hobby'.

I appreciate your input.

the best easiest way is to subscribe to sly, it doesnt get any easier than that

this forum is more about what hobbyists like me are into, and there are hundreds of boxes and options to choose from so there is no easy answer, and as its not "kosher" to get the sly channels any other way we cannot elaborate in words to suit a newbie capiche ?

but my point here is that the owner of a 3rd party box, be it an alien or dreambox or vu or clarke or blade or spider or openbox or technomate or something else has to be prepared to put a lot of time and effort into his new hobby, especially to achieve what sly do so effortlessly

some people test the water with a cheap sly dish and openbox, and graduate to better things later

as I said earlier, its similar to either buying a car from vauxhall like an astra, having it serviced and only having to put petrol in (easy), compared to making a car from a kit of parts and eventually driving it knowing you made it and you can repair it

so it depends how much effort you wish to put in , and there is no easy answer apart from letting sly do it all for you. the rest is far more complicated than you imagine

if you are a car driver, I am sure you had to learn to drive and was all fingers and thumbs and no idea what to do when starting off, we all were, well this is no different (but you could be like a dragon and employ a chauffeur or get taxis instead)

get the dish fitted yourself if you want the diy route, or get sly to do it if you go the official route

then get a cheap box and have a play at our hobby, to see if you grasp it, then go for the bigger and better box later if you like the hobby and wish to take it further, and relegate the cheap box to the bedroom, thats what most people do when starting off

[ramjet]

3 years ago I wrote this on another forum, and have amended it over the years, have a read of it, it may help your knowledge and decision making

F.A.Q. THREAD ON SATELLITE


a lot of people ask questions about satellite , and the answers could take up all of wikipedia Wink

so a few basics to mull over:-

satellites:-

there are literally dozens of them up there , in various positions over the equator , some pointing south and others pointing north , and in different directions too

as a general rule for the uk and northern europe , the main northern ones to look at are the following positions

30 west hispasat , 1 west/0.8west thor/intelsat , 5 east sirius, 9 east , 10 east , 13 east hotbird , 16 east , 19 east astra 1 , 28 east astra 2/eurobird , 39 east hellassat

typically the standard zone 1 or zone 2 sky dish will be pointed at 28.2 east astra 2 and 28.5 east eurobird 1 ( almost co-located in the sky ) and so will only get channels from that position from all the satellites located there


dishes:-

the golden rule is....the bigger the dish , the better !!! seems obvious but you need the biggest collector you can use

typically you want an 80cm to 110cm dish , by say triax , gilbertini , raven , andrews , wavefrontier or similar decent manufacturer

these will cost anything up to say ?150 depending on size and facilities , or ?5 for sly mini dish

thousands of people have a sky mini dish on the wall , usually pointed at astra2/eurobird1 at 28 east , so can get the freesat channels from this dish using any digital satellite receiver




lnb,s ( low noise blocks ) :-

there are several types , but you usually want a universal with 40mm collar to go on the dish

and you want to know how many outputs you need , 1 , 2 , 4 or 8 outputs , sky plus uses a quad lnb ( 4 outputs ) or an octo ( 8 outputs )

motorised dishes tend to use single or dual lnb,s ( one feed or two )

and usually you cannot split the coax feed , which is the reason for needing to know how many outputs you require beforehand

a darkgold or inverto ultrablack or similar lnb will be fine ( the lower the number the better , so say 0.1db or 0.2db ), cost around ?5 to ?30



motors:-

2 types of motor exist , diseqc which uses a single coax feed , or polar mount with actuator which uses 36 volt wires and a coax feed

most receivers use diseqc , not 36 volt , so for 36 volt you also need a vbox2

the darkmotor is considered one of the best motors , also technomate tm-2600 , other technomates , motek , stab and similar ones , preferably one with metal gears and not plastic gears , cost will be between say ?40 and ?100 for the motor



so a diseqc darkmotor , 90cm dish , lnb , sat grade cable , wall mount , f connectors , rawlbolts etc , without fitting will come to maybe ?150 or more I would think , and the fitting ( labour only ) can range from anywhere between ?100 for the cheapest quote and say ?500 which was the dearest I heard about



receivers:- there are hundreds of different receivers out there , some open source linux based boxes like the Dreambox dm800HD , dm8000HD , dm500HD or similar, or Icecrypt S4000HD dual tuner pvr or the ice6000 , or the Vu+DUO-HD pvr or the new Vu+Solo version , or the Technomate TM5402HD , several others are closed source too like the Starview HD combo , or Spiderbox 9000HD or 9900HD , or Spiderbox 7000HD ; or the new spiderbox 9000N-HD COMBO for freesat and freeview , or the new Eurovox Blade BM7000s HD , or the Clarke Tech ET-9000 or 9200SL or 9500ET or dozens of similar boxes like the very cheap Openbox HD (skybox) or the eaglebox 800 HD which are very cheap closed source boxes for around ?60 to ?85 and mainly used as starter boxes (but there are clones of those too)

any satellite receiver will work in this way, but there are literally hundreds of satellite boxes on the market, ranging from the closed source openbox HD and eagle HD up to the top of the range dreambox 8000, so you have to make up your own minds depending on budget, open or closed source software, single,twin or triple tuners, internal or external HDD connections, and many other sundry items too numerous to mention. there is no one box that suits everybody, so make up your own minds based on what you read and research it thoroughly

open source ( usually linux ) are normally the best , and also the dearest , as you can do a lot more with them

ideally you want a receiver with an ethernet lan port , like the boxes mentioned above , and a DM800HD-s satellite receiver is certainly one of the best , or a DM500-S-HD , but none are cheap to buy , and neither is its big brother the dual tuner pvr DM8000HD-s at just short of a grand to buy

lower costs will be around ?50 to ?150 for an SD or low end HD receiver , and say ?150 to ?550 for a standard HD receiver , but can be as much as a grand

various options tend to exist for the programming and use of any satellite receiver and associated system , which is why there are dozens of forums with dedicated sections on each aspect like flashing , editing , updating , tuning , ftp , etc

all the above receivers, and many more too, will take a cccam line or newcamd line; but you may need to read up on the how to"s tutorials to sort it out



so simple it is not , so do not get into it without some paracetamol to hand , as its a tricky business and not for lazy people who wont do their own research , its not a 10 minute task like it used to be on a cable box , so complicated it is , but there again the benefits are greater too , if you put the time and effort into it ( this can be days , weeks , months etc )

very little is open now on satellite , apart from the free to air channels , so you could spend a grand and still only get bbc1 , itv2 etc

to open anything scrambled requires detailed knowledge and usually costs extra money as little is now hacked , so dont think its free or cheap as there will be costs involved , typically well over a hundred per year for a single sat card and costs can go up alarmingly depending what you wish to watch

most people in the uk would be looking to watch sky channels , but SKY IS NOT HACKED , and unlikely to be , it uses a very secure encryption system called N.D.S. and needs a subscription card in full working order , and up to date , in order to decode what you pay for to sky , so dont expect to just plug a satellite box into a sky dish and watch all them lovely channels for nowt !! its just not gonna happen !!

google freesat if you want to know some typically free channels up there on the same astra 2 and eurobird satellites that sky use , and that is just on one major satellite position out of dozens !!

or try these sites for info

_http://www.freesat.co.uk/

_http://www.lyngsat.com/

_http://www.flysat.com

_http://en.kingofsat.net/]KingOfSat - European Satellite Zapping & Directory




a good kit would be a DM800-HD-s dreambox pvr , darkgold 0.1 db lnb , diseqc darkmotor , triax 110cm dish , a very sturdy wall bracket

and an ethernet cable to a router is a must have , with broadband 24/7 internet access too

or use a starview HD combo PLUS instead , as ts a competitive price compared to any other HD sat box( or spiderbox or blade ) , regular updates , usb updating , lan port , it also uses a cccam file via usb loading , or remote control input , and channel file lists can also be loaded by usb , as can softcams ( k*ys ) too

and before you decide what to do , check your proposed position for it , as it needs a clear line of sight from east to west , passing due south in the process , looking slightly upwards as you do so , as if looking at an aeroplane due to land a few miles away. the dish can be mounted on the ground as well as on a wall or pole , height is not an issue other than to "see" over obstacles like trees and walls and fences etc. it does not have to be up high like an aerial , but the signals do have to hit the dish face and bounce back to the lnb which collects them

the main 3 satellites you want are 13e , 19e and 28e , and these can usually be had from one dish with an lnb rack on it , and it uses a diseqc 4 way switch at the dish end connected to the lnb,s , with one downlead in satellite grade coax to your receiver. so if this is all you need , buy a dish and lnb rack , up to 4 lnb,s ( single , dual or quad ) , a 4 way diseqc switch or switches , satellite grade coaxial cable , and a dozen f connectors , and weatherproof sticky tape ( a wavefrontier dish is ideal for this task , usually the 55cm one )

cost would be around ?700 for the above setup


so a cheaper setup would be a starview HD combo ( or Spiderbox or Blade ) on fixed dish on 28e , or on a multi lnb fixed dish that gets 13e , 19e and 28e using a 4 way diseqc switch

or this could be the 55cm wavefrontier with 3 lnb,s on it coupled with a diseqc 4 way switch , centred on 19e ( astra1 ) and the sv HD combo

this may cost up to say ?350



or even an openmedia or dreambox500-s is probably a good starter box to learn the ropes at say ?100 or more in total ( thats for the free channels )


also bear in mind each digital satellite box needs its own coaxial feed from the lnb , which is why there are single output , dual output , quad output and octo output lnb,s , using f connectors like cable does


if you have a modem , use a router to feed each box with its own "internet feed" Wink , one feed per box , one modem if a modem is needed , one broadband line ( some routers like adsl include an integrated modem , so act as an all in one unit )


nb:- a patched box will usually NOT decode scrambled channels , as very few satellite hacks exist now , especially after broadcasters have moved to more secure encryptions like nagra 3 by kudelski and others that are even better like the nds/videoguard sky use _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoGuard]VideoGuard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so if you patch a dreambox or a starview HD combo or similar , in general it will still only open free to air channels as the patch is not a magic wand that opens all the channels like the old cable hack did on the nagra 1 encryption, the list of channels that can be opened by a patched box usually gets shorter every week , and the channels that most people want to watch are the ones protected by the best encryptions like nds _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoGuard , so again , another reminder , simple it isnt !!

so when you get your box , and get the channels into it , at first the only thing you can expect to get is any non-scrambled , ie:- FREE TO AIR channels ! ,
and what these are will depend on where your dish is pointing , so the earlier links will help you to decide what they should be.
the chances are these are not what you really wanted to get , but its all you can expect until you do some research on cccam and newcamd on how to open encrypted ones like sly1HD or ch5HD by adding C or N lines into your boxes networking options Wink

also bear in mind that good PC skills in say XP can be essential in this endeavour , especially with linux boxes like the dreamboxes , so learn to use FTP programs like Cuteftp or Flashfxp or Filezilla or Fireftp , windows explorer or total commander , Telnet , Putty , Winzip , Winrar , notepad plus , DCC , Dreamboxedit , Dreamset , Dreamup etc ( and your com ports , lan ports and broadband router ip addresses , and the router admin panel from internet explorer and firefox too )

bear in mind there is usually no "gift" with the boxes (so not like a kryptview that allows viewing once it has been patched and connected to the internet) so usually you will only open FTA channels like freesat on astra2 at 28 east

UNLESS you provide your own "gift" line from a suitable s*rver which is entered using 9991 on the remote control on any channel for the blade for instance , or networking on sv combo and spiderbox, or by ftp into cccam.cfg on vu and dreambox

the units can usually accept either cccam or newcamd versions of the "line" , so either is usually acceptable

google will provide more information on doing this using any suitable box , including the blade , starview combo , spiderbox , dreambox etc

so its worth noting that when you hook it up to a s*y dish its FREESAT that you will be getting as far as viewing channels
FREESAT channels can be located on their website and are free to air on any suitable satellite receiver and dish pointed at 28e

should you wish to use a different satellite or a motor then again you only get FTA channels unless you provide a suitable card or line yourself

generally speaking there is no magic menu to get "extra" channels , so dont ask unless its relevant , like on the protek or spiderbox !

hope that info clarifies the usual FAQ by members

I hope that answers the basics , but remember its "war and peace" after that , and can get VERY technical , so dont expect simple one liner answers

good luck


GLOSSARY OF TERMS :-

ECM stands for Entitlement Control Message

although it can be used by providers as a counter-measure against illegal cards in cam*, it's primary function is actually to allow you to view a channel. The ECM holds 2 encrypted Control Words (CW), which are decrypted by the card, using a set of k**s that rotate each month and are updated by the EMMs. The card holds k**s for the current month and the next month. The 2 decrypted CWs, the current one and the next one to be used, are fed to the receiver and rotated every 0.1-30 seconds. These allow the receiver to decode the audio and video-streams. As the next CW is always available, the receiver or card could miss 1 ECM without the picture freezing. The decrypted CWs are what is being shared in c*rd-sh*ring , and the time has decreased over the years and is usually in milliseconds rather than seconds

EMM stands for Entitlement Management Message. This is a message sent by the broadcaster to the cam to allow transfer of information to the Smart Card.

a "sea lion" is a colloquialism for the term C Line (say it using phonetics) and is commonly used as an alternative name but is derived from the emulator called cccam where a c line is given to a "friend" and an F line is placed in the outgoing section of the "service" where the card resides, usually in a linux box but can be a pc instead

[degsie]

pspmixer could you possibly pm me the same info as callum as im in the same boat as him, I would appreciate the help mate. im a cable guy looking to move to satellite

[dexyweescot]

Calum why don't u get an aerials and communications company to fit a dish and run cables to start u off. one step at a time. i know a local boy from fife that i can get a number for if u wish. he installs for around the ?140 mark. either that or if u have a dish close by to u, why not change the lnb and run off that haha

[Gourls]

HI guys,

Complete and total beginner here, a guy is selling 'everything' you need to get all the sly channels etc box included for ?300. I have been reading and reading all about these, but all the information is confusing. Can you not just Buy an F3 box off ebay and plug it in and away you go? Can someone send me info on this? Thanks!

[ramjet]

HI guys,

Complete and total beginner here, a guy is selling 'everything' you need to get all the sly channels etc box included for ?300. I have been reading and reading all about these, but all the information is confusing. Can you not just Buy an F3 box off ebay and plug it in and away you go? Can someone send me info on this? Thanks!

no , not legally anyway

if you had read through my posts in this thread you would clearly see that sky is not hacked, which means there is no legitimate method of watching their channels other than to subscribe

a skybox f3 off ebay is not made for or supplied by sky, its a third party box and requires extra features to get sly channels, including cs
you will find more info on the f3 and skybox on the openbox forum here on dk

I suggest you read all of this thread again so you understand the differences between legal and illegal, and what can be sold legally, and what cannot