Newbie struggling with Motor setup/ tracking arc correctly

[apple22]

Hi all- quite a newbie to this Sat stuff and just installed a motorised dish with an old Technomate 5400 Super. I followed all the instructions I could find but cannot seem to track the Arc totally, using usals or 1.2. For example I align setup/ signal on Thor 0.8W and can then track upto about 7W or 23.5E but does not find anything/ tracking goes out above 7W or 23.5E and also has trouble with 16E (Elevation seems to go out). I then try an experiment and align setup on 19.2E as a starting point/ strong signal and can get 7E to 28.2E. Can anyone with knowledge tell me where I am going wrong? Have tried altering everything (Dish elevation, motor latitude, left/ right adjustment etc) and still cannot seem to track the arc for more than I have described. Is a supreme intelligent Darkmotor and 90cm dish.

I think this diagram shows obviously what my system is doing but how do I get it tracking correctly?



By looking at the diagram it appears my south axis is too far East/West OR my declination is out? How do I adjust the declination and what exactly is it? Is there a declination setting on the motor? Has a Latitude setting on the motor and this is what I have used/ set. Seems though on some of these Darkmotors there was some confusion as some had latitude settings where as some other had elevation settings- could this be the problem? Have used Latitude as that is what is says. 50.7N where I am.
Seem to have tried / altered everything but cannot seem to follow the arc properly.
Pretty sure pole mount is level as I have aligned it 3 times till it was.


Any help/ advice greatly appreciated before I wear the damn motor/ gear out, such is the use I am giving it keep moving to different positions trying to get it right!
aaaagh!! frustrating trying to do this but quite addictive also in a way!

[digicon]

Generally a lot of the dark motors use to have a latitude scale on one side and an elevation scale on the other which would mean your Latitude as you say is 50.7 so set that around 50/51 and if the other side of the motor still has the elevation scale that should read 40.

Your dish Bracket angle should be around 28.7 but take this with a pinch of salt as every dish is different but most should be set and adjusted between around 23-30 just for a quick starting point, if you are pretty sure the Pole the motor is attached too is still 100% level 360? all around then it may just need a bit of fine tuning left/right as in the whole assembly Dish/Motor

[apple22]

Thanks Digicon for your time and help. Yes, think my motor has markings for only the Latitude on both side so I probably got that right and one less thing to worry about.
~
Funny, after posting my initial problems with the diagram, I had a (long) think about it (could hear the cogs in my brain clunking!) and sort of came up with an answer somewhat, or at least something to try. Reckoned the True South point may have been wrong after studying the diagrams- moved it a few fractions East to experiment and now have the arc more accurately 30W-28E so far but am missing 9E and 26E, other than that am hitting all of them (30W-28E). So is getting alot better than it was and quite a vast improvement. How cool are these motors and the way it all works! Pictures really clear and good signal strength generally on the arc. Hope I can nail the Arc totally- then I can leave the damn thing alone- been doing it for about 3 evenings and as I said find it quite frustrating but satisfying and addictive at the sametime. Thank God for the 'InterNut' - without the help/ diagrams would never have got this far. It's the sort of thing you cannot leave alone till you have it perfect (or as perfect as you can get it)!!

[apple22]

......... if you are pretty sure the Pole the motor is attached too is still 100% level 360? all around then it may just need a bit of fine tuning left/right as in the whole assembly Dish/Motor

Yes, you have answered what I did I think and has made things much better as I explain above. Took me 3 days to work out what you explain in 1 short sentence!!

[apple22]

Seem to have got all the sats from 30W to 28.2E, think I cannot get 30E-45E because of a large tree and neighbours house.

Just wondering, are some sats stronger signals than others? For example 7W and 8W seem quite weak and only have signals of about 52%, is this normal or can I get these higher but fine adjustment etc? Want to try and get as strong signals as possible but am abit nervous of making any fine adjustments in case it makes it worse rather than better and I spoil the tracking of the arc.

[mdt]

Seem to have got all the sats from 30W to 28.2E, think I cannot get 30E-45E because of a large tree and neighbours house.

Just wondering, are some sats stronger signals than others? .

depends on the intended area/footprint but yes. as your example at 7.3w isnt intended for european reception you are getting the edge of the footprint and 99% of footprints go gradually weaker at the edges requiring a larger dish for reception and sometimes even a 5 meter dish isnt enough(amos middle east beam as an example). take a look at @lyngsat/@flysat for maps and channels,regards mdt

[digicon]

You would be far better trying to 'Peak' your dish on either 7? west and or 26? east as 7? west as noted above can be got with a 90cm all it will mean is that maybe some of your High Powered sats such as 28.2?,19.2? etc... may lose a db or 2 but does it really matter as these are extremely strong satellites.

26? east can be a bit of beggar especially on say something like a 80-90cm as it tends to get swamped by the similar frequency's from 28.2? east so fine tuning will be needed.

[apple22]

Thanks for info mdt and digicon. I been fine tuning it and have now got really good signal strength- 80-98% on many- 7W and 8W seem to be the weakest at about 56% and cannot seem improve on that but the pictures are still very clear. I am finding that just tightening the bolts can throw 7W and 8W out abit which is annoying as seems to then take ages lining it back up again. Yes, 26E a few of the channels everso slightly break up about 50% but many are 64% and clear. Think I will leave it there and maybe just nudge E or W using 'fine adjustment' to clear up the reception on these weaker channels.

Overall though very happy and have been using a real cheapo satellite finder, a homemade welded wall bracket and had not even seen a satellite motor until a few days ago, so a good result it seems. Thanks for the help and info.

[smokin]

Well you seem to have it working correctly, good for you, but the most important thing with a motor set up is to have the pole 100% straight, on all four sides. Double and triple check this while setting up. Sounds funny, but if off ever so slightly, even a small amount, then so goes your arch, it will be off at certain points.

[markwi]

I agree,very important.Also the way the motor bracket sits on the pole is critical.So check the body of the motor as well.

[apple22]

Thanks guys and what you are saying is what I am probably finding gradually.

Sadly, on 'fine tuning' and in my enthusiasm of searching for strong signals I started losing 7W and 8W, where as before I got them but only about 56% (probably not all channels either). Also 30W started disappearing. I damn well realised I had stripped the threads abit on motor brackets with constant adjustment and overtightening and possibly had even slightly distorted the pole which may not be so plumb 360⁰ all the way round now. So unfortunately can see the only solution will be to take everything down, re-check and re-straighten pole mount if necessary and use some spacers on the stripped clamp threads to reach new clean thread to enable retightening, albeit much more careful next time around. What with the inability to nip up the stripped threads and the possible distortion of the pole by overtightening think the setup will constantly miss the arc now(as Markwi and Smokin explain). Beginning to think that my current arc of 30W-28.2E was out abit anyway as it struggles with 30W and only just seems to get it. Think the mounting pole may not be quite plumb exactly, especially now I may have slightly distorted it and it was homemade anyway with a welder. Despite the tree I speak of being about 30E and beyond it may well be that my arc is out and 30⁰E-45⁰E will pick up and the tree is not actually stopping the signal but rather the arc is out, probably through pole not being 100% plumb I reckon, which may also be the reason why 30W drops off the otherside of the Arc.
Yes, next step to take it all down again and really thoroughly check the pole straightness 360⁰ all the way round. I have only been using a hand level to the best of my ability but think I may have another hand level that is a cabinet making tool and I think actually far more critical and accurate that the basic hand level that I have been using.
More to this than one may think it seems but seems key to me being able to understand how the arc runs and what points are being hit and missed etc.
Anymore tips and observations appreciated again....

[markwi]

Don't worry about it being true 360?,just the east-west and north-south points.Although if the're true then it will be for 360?.You probably realised that.Simply speaking if you get this trueness for the pole and motor,then adjust the dish bracket elevation angle and the motor on pole relationship (azimuth)for the most southerly satellite,you should get a good arc of satellites.This depends on you setting up the latitude on the motor correctly and the centre of the dish being aligned with the zero mark of the motor.Good luck.Cheers

ps there are some motors that have the scales incorrectly marked,the latitude and elevation are the wrong way around.As the value of Latitude goes down the dish goes up in angle.For the Elevation scale,the value goes down as the dish goes down in angle.

[apple22]

Don't worry about it being true 360?,just the east-west and north-south points.Although if the're true then it will be for 360?.You probably realised that.

Aah okay- yes see what you mean.

Beginning to think the pole was dipping everso slightly West side which in turn would everso slightly raise the East side, hence me starting to miss at 30W and about 30E. That is what it would do isn't it, when not 100% straight? I.e, 30 West would miss by being a tad too low and in turn 30E would miss by being a tad too high, like a 'see-saw out of balance' so to speak.

[markwi]

Sounds about right.The main things is,which everyone says is most important,is that the pole is perfectly vertical .A mate did have this but there was some sort of problem with how the motor clamps sits on the pole so this might need to be taken into account.You need a good spirit level and a good eye to get this right.Cheers.

[apple22]

Sounds about right.The main things is,which everyone says is most important,is that the pole is perfectly vertical .A mate did have this but there was some sort of problem with how the motor clamps sits on the pole so this might need to be taken into account.You need a good spirit level and a good eye to get this right.Cheers.

Yes, as you say even though the pole maybe vertical by the spirit level, the damn clamp design and even overtightening of bolts etc may possibly everso slightly distort/warp/ misalign the plumb position of everything else, albeit tiny even. Think my overtightening may have slightly 'squished' the pole inwards which may or may not be an issue. Pity pole is not abit stronger and is able to distort by overtightening, reckon a scaffold bar would make a better mounting pole as it is stronger than the pole I have made up, out of galvanised. Problem I found with (over)tightening was that you only got a few attempts before you had messed too much with the bolts and possibly squished the pole/ stressed the threads. Will have to be more careful in my next attempt and only 'tighten very gently' if that makes sense. Would be nice maybe to make up an 'adjustable pole mount' somehow, so one could fine tune/ level by very fine adjustment if needed(maybe a threaded adjuster).
Hopefully the pole has not been too affected/distorted by my overtightening and the problem lies in it not being totally plumb. I will wait till weather improves abit- then dismantle/ check / straighten anything that looks out and re-install again (for the 5th time!)
Abit of a pain but upside is I am getting a fair bit of practice and hopefully learning these methods/ how it is done.