Explanation into sly's new encryption and the ways needed decrypt

[shawy1970]

Sky's new pairing doesn't introduce any significant differences to the existing NDS data, that data is still encrypted so only a genuine card can decrypt it, but what it does do is add an additional layer of encryption between the box/card to prevent their cards from being used in card servers like os thingy or cc thingy A new HD box running the latest firmware is able to take the incoming NDS data [ECMs/EMMs] from the MPEG (video) stream and further encrypt it before sending it to the card. An old HD box (or an SD box) just continues as it did before, extracting the NDS data from the MPEG stream and feeding it to the card. This design allows Sky to alter NOTHING to the existing NDS code, which is essential to (a) prevent loggers/hackers from running comparators over logs from the then/now data streams and (b) allow older boxes to work as before. Remember, the change has NOT happened at the NDS level, it has happened at the firmware level of both the new HD boxes and the existing cards. It's the boxes that are instructed to use the pairing algorithm [or not] for a particular channel(s) [or more accurately, entitlement group/level] If you place a card in a new HD box, the card will be instructed to accept the newly encrypted data using the sky box's pairing key... If you then move the card back to os thingy, it will continue to expect that encrypted data for that channel(s) and try to decrypt it... Of course, as the incoming data is NOT encrypted (coming from os thingy for example) you'll get nothing worthwhile back.. So what happens when you put a card back in oscam or put it back in an SD box or an old HD box and leave it..? If the card is unable to verify it's running in a new HD box [after x amount of time (or cycles) or following a new install/pairing process], it reverts back to the original system we all know and love, which is of course easy for most to share. [I'm sure their lawyers have reminded Sky not to enforce a blackout on paying customers for fear of prosecution or maybe Sky have acknowledged some people may use their own older boxes in the event of a failure..] How long Sky allow the card to revert back on the other hand is the question most pay servers should be considering.. As it stands now the new system does nothing to prevent c/s, however, once Sky are happy they have updated all the smartcards (all those EMMs you've been seeing...) and have completed most (if not all) of the box upgrades, expect to see some disruption. When this will be, you'll have to ask the boys over at Sky (and I'm not talking about their installers / customer support agents here ) Here's a quick overview of both the old and new data exchange: Current: ECM/EMM Data is fed to the box via the MPEG stream, it then passes it to the card for a response. New: ECM/EMM Data is fed to the box via the MPEG stream, it then further encrypts the data using a pairing key before passing it on to the card. The card decrypts this in order to then decrypt and process the original ECM/EMM command. The reply is then encrypted [again using the pairing key] and sent back to the box, which then decrypts and executes it. Both the original ECM/EMM data and the reply have not changed, the only thing that has changed is the way the data was exchanged between the box and the card.. As has been mentioned (and seemingly ignored) beforehand, it is possible to use a card which has been updated to the new system by dumping the key from a new HD box (pretty much in the same way you dump an RSA key from a Nagra3 UK Cable box) which then allows the use of something like newcs, utilising the receiver ID of course. This information is not publically available as this would allow both ViasatHD and SkyHD (shortly) to be shared and to be honest, many that have worked on this are sick of all the exploitation...

[hkphooey]

Interesting but pretty useless to most of us here

[darcu5]

over my head.. more interested in knowing if or when a fix can be found instead of seeing this post over and over.. also since this is the skybox/openbox forum/threads then most folk come on here cause struggle to install a channel list i doubt very much their boxes have ever had a sniff of a card.. maybe better off posting in the general sat threads then on here.

'just sayin'

[AndyX]

This may have been answered before somewhere but whats stopping Sky from updating the firmware on SD boxes to use this new method?

[super jumbe]

whats stopping Sky from updating the firmware on SD boxes to use this new method?

$$$_???

[shawy1970]

the software isnt possible on sd boxes only to upgrade the 1 million sd boxes to hd boxes which they are trying to do but will cost alot of monies

[digicon]

the software isnt possible on sd boxes only to upgrade the 1 million sd boxes to hd boxes which they are trying to do but will cost alot of monies

1 million try 5.5 million at a rough guess could be more and could be less

[Rodbouy]

Think sky stated they had 5m sd customers last year, so even 4 mil at a massive reduction. It would be crazy to swap out that amount in the near to distant future.
Sd they dont really care about. HD is the holy grail that every one wants. I dont know how many thompson boxes there was in circulation but it took them a year to swap them and give customers the option of free upgrade.