is it illegal?

[jfish]

Don't know why you keep on comming back to non active or non valid clines. What use are they anyway? If they don't work then you are not receiving/sending keys and you are not doing anything illegal.

It is even possible to use lines legaly. For instance if you have two boxes (for ex. one in livingroom and one in bedroom) and share your valid sub via a line then you are not breaking the law, eventhough you are using a linux box, a softcam and a line.

It is the sharing with other people that is illegal.

You are getting confused on the concept of card sharing - and when it becomes card sharing

It doesnt matter if you share your sly sub with another box in the same house or with someone outside of your house, its becomes illegal then .. once your share the card out that can provide valid keys (be it with cccam , mgcamd or some other softcam) that in my opinion becomes illegal.

[rigsby71]

Viewing pay TV channels without paying for them is illegal.

However way you do it.

End of.

[rljutter]

Viewing pay TV channels without paying for them is illegal.

However way you do it.

End of.

yes we all know that sharing cards is illegal, but like everything there is always a point when something goes from legal to illegal its finding that point, the general feeling seams to be that the fact a receiver is capable of stealing a service but not doing so ( i.e. no active cline ) is still legal but the second you input a valid cline ( that is not owned by you ) it becomes illegal.

[themanfromuncle]

You are getting confused on the concept of card sharing - and when it becomes card sharing

It doesnt matter if you share your sly sub with another box in the same house or with someone outside of your house, its becomes illegal then .. once your share the card out that can provide valid keys (be it with cccam , mgcamd or some other softcam) that in my opinion becomes illegal.

I think you are wrong (or we are missunderstanding each other).

You can't illegaly share with yourself (in your own household) but you may be in breech of the terms of your provider (and may lead to an ending of the contract).

Words like cardshare, payservers, cccam etc are not legal terms. Unless there is a law that specifically forbids cardsharing in those terms (as using a softcam to distribute keys) then the only applicable laws that forbid the sharing are the copyright laws. And these forbid the distribution of copyrighted content by what ever means.

As you can use softcams for legal purposses, the use of these in itself can not be illegal (unless specificly statueted as illegal).

Giving out lines to others or receiving them and using them is always illegal.

In my opinion the reason the imagemakers are no longer including the softcams in their images is so as not to get caught up in legal actions against people who have used their software to share illegally. They could be seen as accomplices by some judges in some countries. And they hope that this way this will not happen.

[themanfromuncle]

yes we all know that sharing cards is illegal, but like everything there is always a point when something goes from legal to illegal its finding that point, the general feeling seams to be that the fact a receiver is capable of stealing a service but not doing so ( i.e. no active cline ) is still legal but the second you input a valid cline ( that is not owned by you ) it becomes illegal.

I think you are right.

[andiewill]

Look lets get this termoligy correct .........

unlawfull is when you do something against the law.

and

Illeagle is a big sick bird.

PS:- sorry i could not resist :-)

[jfish]

I think you are wrong (or we are missunderstanding each other).

You can't illegaly share with yourself (in your own household) but you may be in breech of the terms of your provider (and may lead to an ending of the contract).

Words like cardshare, payservers, cccam etc are not legal terms. Unless there is a law that specifically forbids cardsharing in those terms (as using a softcam to distribute keys) then the only applicable laws that forbid the sharing are the copyright laws. And these forbid the distribution of copyrighted content by what ever means.

As you can use softcams for legal purposses, the use of these in itself can not be illegal (unless specificly statueted as illegal).

so let me get this straight

I have 2 DM 500s in my house and one single Sly subscription

What you are saying is I can share that single sly subscription to my 2 DM boxes in the house and that is ok and within the law.

[rigsby71]

No, that would not be within the law, as you are watching tv on those boxes , which have not got a paid sub.

To watch Sky on a second box requires an Extra sub of ?10 per month & as you would not be paying this, then your acitons are Illegal.

You can use the 2nd card in the extra box as you would be paying to watch it, you would just be in breach of your contract with Sky as you would not be using their box but that is probably not against the law of the land.

[themanfromuncle]

Yes, but you might be breaking the terms of your contract with Sly.

[jfish]

Yes, but you might be breaking the terms of your contract with Sly.

once you use a non approved Sly box (Dreambox or another satellite box) - then you automatically break and T&C

[themanfromuncle]

once you use a non approved Sly box (Dreambox or another satellite box) - then you automatically break and T&C

This is possible. I'm not English and don't know their terms.

But this is not the case for most providers. I can use whatever hardware I want. My provider only certifies certain stb's.

And the thread starter lives in Cyprus so he won't have problems with Sly's terms. But I would advise him to read the terms and conditions of his provider just to be on the safe side.

[rljutter]

The fact that he lives in Cyprus and wants to watch Sly UK tv there would be in breach of the Sly T&C.

So we all agreed then , the only problem is cardsharing not the fact that a receiver is capable of it regardless of software, cams cclines etc

Example you purchase a receiver from me with cccam all set up an ready to go ..... This is legal

I then give you a ccline that is not valid .......... This is still legal

Someone else gives you a valid and working ccline and you use it ............ ILLEGAL

[junger]

Hold on peeps
the illegality is stealing the program without payment, anything else is surely intent. Though the latter maybe an offence, in itself it would be very difficult to prove.

[GastonJ]

Isn't stealing the action of "permanently depriving someone of their lawful goods"? You can't deprive someone of a satellite signal, so it can't be theft. However it could fall under fraudulent use on the part of the person serving the keys out.

[Ansem]

here is something to think about, it's not gospel or referring to a specific provider but interesting

There is also a potential legal question involved (which has yet to be addressed) as the equipment is normally the property not of the provider but of the end user. Providers will often print on the smartcard itself that the card is the property of the signal provider, but at least one legal precedent indicates that marking "this is mine" on a card, putting it in a box with a receiver and then selling it can legally mean "this is not mine anymore". Malicious damage to receiver firmware puts providers on even shakier legal ground in the unlikely event that the matter were ever to be heard by the judiciary.

and the link if you would like a good read Pirate decryption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia