Another Math Problem

[smirnoff_rules]

there crap in Europe too .. there charging 5 euros for a pint in some places , that cant be right

[pawliukazz]

OK. I give up but before I do I should tell you that I have taught this stuff at university level to degree students. I have a PhD and I do know what I am talking about. When you get a bit older and understand the numbers that you think you understand then you will see that what I have said is correct but until that time you can get by and go forward believing that there is logical reason behind it.

ok, i say ,Sir ,if you don't mind,

If we talk about the numbers then yes, they are like a rule, they are not object we can touch, but they are i don't know how to say, they can be described, the numbers describe something about the lets say objects, and by using numbers the rules was made, the theorys was found and stuff. so sorry sir, but for now i disagree with you, that theorys can't be proved by logically thinking... maybe in the future i will...

[thered]

OK. I give up but before I do I should tell you that I have taught this stuff at university level to degree students. I have a PhD and I do know what I am talking about. When you get a bit older and understand the numbers that you think you understand then you will see that what I have said is correct but until that time you can get by and go forward believing that there is logical reason behind it.

i agree with your maths sponsor me please

[Stuart 0366]

Wow guys, now you are way over my head (not difficult, I am small) but it has gone too deep into math and formulae

I am just a guy who wants to know why things are the way they are and who or what made it so rightly or wrongly.

Going back to the problem in question the logical answer is 35, the illogical answer is 23. I say illogical for the reason that there is no particular reason for BODMAS to be in place...it just is.

Because I am not great of mind I will not argue any point I do not know but I will debate it. Remember when the world was flat? Who decided it wasn't. It was well before the first circumnavigation of the globe that is for sure.

The point is some things have to be taken on blind faith whether we agree or not. The relevance of certain laws of mathematics come under this criteria and I freely admit I have no idea why but most of the time these laws work.

You can twist maths to prove and disprove the same point. This has been done over and over again by many scientists using the laid down laws of number so in my mind both answers can be right at the same time. Though I can (hopefully) say you can understand my viewpoint it still stands uneasily with me.

[thewizardofodds]

Nope It's all arithmetic.

You reckon?
i did o-grade arithmetic and o-grade maths and I was under the impression that simple adding, multiplications were arith and more complicated with signs etc was maths.
I got a for both anyway. I also did standard grade maths along side these (around 1990 when they first introduced standard grade) and standard grade was a complete and utter doddle compared to ograde never mind the higher maths.
Kids have it easy these days thatrs why 70 odd percent are getting good passes.
I did a gcse test paper off bite size site couple of weeks ago when I was pissed and stoned and it was a doddle.

[SpLinter]

Wow guys, now you are way over my head (not difficult, I am small) but it has gone too deep into math and formulae

I am just a guy who wants to know why things are the way they are and who or what made it so rightly or wrongly.

Going back to the problem in question the logical answer is 35, the illogical answer is 23. I say illogical for the reason that there is no particular reason for BODMAS to be in place...it just is.

Because I am not great of mind I will not argue any point I do not know but I will debate it. Remember when the world was flat? Who decided it wasn't. It was well before the first circumnavigation of the globe that is for sure.

The point is some things have to be taken on blind faith whether we agree or not. The relevance of certain laws of mathematics come under this criteria and I freely admit I have no idea why but most of the time these laws work.

You can twist maths to prove and disprove the same point. This has been done over and over again by many scientists using the laid down laws of number so in my mind both answers can be right at the same time. Though I can (hopefully) say you can understand my viewpoint it still stands uneasily with me.

I agree that BOD-MAS is merely a rule / convention / standard as to the precedence of mathematical operations when dealing with an expression which contains more than one type of operator.

This convention assigns precedence geometric operations over arithmetic but allows the order to be overridden as the brackets have the highest precedence so that you can express whichever interpretation you require. The convention could easily have been assigned in another way.

Basically you need a language with a specific grammar and syntax before you can begin to communicate complex ideas but that language is just the container.

I notice that the meaning of + is not under scrutiny nor are we questioning how to interpret the digits or which base we are using; all of these things fall into the same category.

You can either use the accepted conventions or spend your life trying to open screw tops by turning them clockwise.

[masur123]

You can either use the accepted conventions or spend your life trying to open screw tops by turning them clockwise.

If we used this logic, the world would still be flat and man would not fly.

Its people who challenge the norm that push the boundaries of thinking and humanity itself

[pawliukazz]

Wow guys, now you are way over my head (not difficult, I am small) but it has gone too deep into math and formulae

I am just a guy who wants to know why things are the way they are and who or what made it so rightly or wrongly.

Going back to the problem in question the logical answer is 35, the illogical answer is 23. I say illogical for the reason that there is no particular reason for BODMAS to be in place...it just is.

Because I am not great of mind I will not argue any point I do not know but I will debate it. Remember when the world was flat? Who decided it wasn't. It was well before the first circumnavigation of the globe that is for sure.

The point is some things have to be taken on blind faith whether we agree or not. The relevance of certain laws of mathematics come under this criteria and I freely admit I have no idea why but most of the time these laws work.

You can twist maths to prove and disprove the same point. This has been done over and over again by many scientists using the laid down laws of number so in my mind both answers can be right at the same time. Though I can (hopefully) say you can understand my viewpoint it still stands uneasily with me.

m8, the logical answer is 23 not 35.

let's go to bottles again

1 bottle with 1 litre capacity
2 bottles with 2 litre capacity

total capacity is :

1+2+2=5 right?
let's write it simpler
1+2x2=5

but you still think that 1+2x2=6, so where the hell that adittional litre came from?

answer:

equasion:

1+2*2 which means 1 bottle with one litre 2 bolttles with 2 litre. Why you think still 6?

because you do the sequence wrong. logically thinking"

equasion 1+2*2=5
but you solve it as (1+2)*2
in this solving way, the logic tells that there's 2 bottles of 3 litres capacity, which is not right.

this happens because in math's there's a rule, if theres multiplication or dividing, then there is optional to write ( ) between the numbers. and because of that comes that it's the same if you write

3+4*5=23
or
3+(4*5)=23

Does it make any sence what i just told you?

[thered]

m8, the logical answer is 23 not 35.

let's go to bottles again

1 bottle with 1 litre capacity
2 bottles with 2 litre capacity

total capacity is :

1+2+2=5 right?
let's write it simpler
1+2x2=5

but you still think that 1+2x2=6, so where the hell that adittional litre came from?

answer:

equasion:

1+2*2 which means 1 bottle with one litre 2 bolttles with 2 litre. Why you think still 6?

because you do the sequence wrong. logically thinking"

equasion 1+2*2=5
but you solve it as (1+2)*2
in this solving way, the logic tells that there's 2 bottles of 3 litres capacity, which is not right.

this happens because in math's there's a rule, if theres multiplication or dividing, then there is optional to write ( ) between the numbers. and because of that comes that it's the same if you write

3+4*5=23
or
3+(4*5)=23

Does it make any sence what i just told you?

i agree with the science behind the maths and the answer it gives

but why dont we just right it the correct way ie,

2*2+1 simpler dont you think?

[pawliukazz]

i agree with the science behind the maths and the answer it gives

but why dont we just right it the correct way ie,

2*2+1 simpler dont you think?

it literrally makes no difference if you write 2*2+1 or 1+2*2, and you can't say that either one of them is correct way to write, because it's the same and the answer is the same it's like 1+2=3 and 2+1=3

[thered]

it literrally makes no difference if you write 2*2+1 or 1+2*2, and you can't say that either one of them is correct way to write, because it's the same and the answer is the same it's like 1+2=3 and 2+1=3

to anyone who makes 6 from your numbers or 35 from the first number it makes a lot of difference

as i would bet that most people would just read the sum from left to right and give the answer a calculator would give

a scientific calculator would give the correct answer a normal calculator would give a wrong answer

however if you changed the way the sum is written to the correct way (left to right) round it would be correct either way whether you used a scientific calculator or a normal one

on another note how long will it take to reach my target if you sponsor me at anthony ferguson is fundraising for Butterwick Hospice Care please

[SpLinter]

If we used this logic, the world would still be flat and man would not fly.

Its people who challenge the norm that push the boundaries of thinking and humanity itself

Well it is nice that you have conformed to the extent of responding in English rather than a language that you made up yourself.

Who knows maybe the world was a flat, then grew into a maisonette, then houses and cities... it had to start somewhere. <groan>

More seriously, some of that which is currently accepted as fact is almost definitely wrong at some level but how can you know or tell anyone unless you understand the flawed concept and the language that it is expressed in?

[maca]

tesco doing 20 440ml cans of wb..work that one out

[Stuart 0366]

m8, the logical answer is 23 not 35.
Does it make any sence what i just told you?

Absolutely none. The problem is to produce the answer not have an answer already so why would you have reversed the problem in the first place.

Also we are talking a numerical answer not a capacity or volume answer (if it was volume it would have been stated at the start of the problem) therefore the use of that particular example is a non entity in this case.

The other point that you made is the use of () being optional...if optional why would there be a law for their usage in the first place. If optional the problem is still open to personal interpretation and therefore 2 different answers depending on your standpoint.

So in summary "because you do the sequence wrong. logically thinking" is a bad statement. Logically thinking I am right. Logically I add 3 and 4 and then multiply by 5

[pawliukazz]

to anyone who makes 6 from your numbers or 35 from the first number it makes a lot of difference

as i would bet that most people would just read the sum from left to right and give the answer a calculator would give

a scientific calculator would give the correct answer a normal calculator would give a wrong answer

however if you changed the way the sum is written to the correct way (left to right) round it would be correct either way whether you used a scientific calculator or a normal one

on another note how long will it take to reach my target if you sponsor me at anthony ferguson is fundraising for Butterwick Hospice Care please

it literally makes no difference, it's only the way of expression of equasion, which makes it sometimes tricky, but really, for the answers it makes no difference, and with calculators, i explained in earlier posts, so be aware of casual calculators!!