Paying off what?

[GastonJ]

David Cameron has insisted the difficult decisions taken in the past three years are "beginning to pay off".
Speaking ahead of the Tory conference on Sunday, the prime minister said the economy had come through a tough period and was on the "right track".
He said a Conservative-only government after the next election would "finish the job", while Labour threatened to "tax business out of existence".
But he acknowledged he had to do more to woo back wavering voters from UKIP.
The Conservatives are going into their annual four-day conference in Manchester in upbeat mood on the back of positive signs about the recovery and improved poll ratings.

BBC News - David Cameron: Hard decisions on economy 'paying off'

I've not seen a penny wiped off the debt, and it's still rising - so what is he paying off? His reference to "finish the job" must be to having the final yard sale, the UK and everything in it to the highest bidder because I've seen nothing improve.

Mr Cameron cited the government's Help to Buy Scheme - where the state guarantees mortgages for couples able to put down a 5% deposit - as evidence the government backed those on middle incomes and supported aspiration.

and those not on middle incomes can live in plastic bags from the supermarket at 5p each..

Hands up everyone who has had something improve for them as a direct result of the governments actions over the last 3 years. Someone must have something?

[PremierD]

Tories back in ..... REM Its the End of the World R.E.M. - YouTube

[aftermath]

Worst government in my life, and for years i thought conservative were a good thing but this shower has totally blown the door right open for Labour.

[GastonJ]

I found this information a few minutes ago

As of Q1 2013 the national debt amounted to ?1,377.4 billion, or 90.7% of total GDP. The annual cost of servicing the public debt amounts to around ?43bn, or roughly 3% of GDP. This is roughly the same size as the British defence budget. It is forecast to rise to 95.6% of total GDP in 2013, further rising to 98.7% of GDP in 2014.


Due to the Government's significant budget deficit, the national debt is increasing by approximately ?121 billion per annum, or around ?2.3 billion each week.

As you can see from the chart below (taken from elsewhere), it isn't going down, so where's all the savings the government are making going???


Gross National Debt


FY 2013 ?1.16 trillion
FY 2012 ?1.04 trillion
FY 2011 ?0.91 trillion
FY 2010 ?0.76 trillion
FY 2009 ?0.62 trillion
FY 2008 ?0.53 trillion

Source UK National Debt - Current, Recent, Historical Charts Tables

I'll hang this at Dover next time I'm passing

[Snowy79]

Just as well Labour weren't in power. With their borrow today pay tomorrow we'd be even more in debt.

[GastonJ]

Aye what an excellent comment that is, and so easy to make. The only evidence so far is that cuts have and are being made, sell offs are taking place, money is not being spent and is being taken in exchange for everything they sell and yet the debt is rising, and due to rise more - which indicates that the bunch of sloths in power now are better?

I'm hoping someone comes forward to answer

Hands up everyone who has had something improve for them as a direct result of the governments actions over the last 3 years. Someone must have something?

[super jumbe]

Well we have tried the lot and I wonder if Labour with English Defence together will make any deferent is it worth taking chances in next election the worse thing can happen is going broke more in dept.

[GastonJ]

Looking at the forecasts for the national debt it will soon be 100% anyway, 98.7% by 2014 - up 3% on 2013. So by the election it may be 101% - 1% above the rate where you drown in sh*t. I'd have thought by now a passing banker, or is that w@ker, would have pointed out how much benefit they've gained from the current (excuse my type on current, I appear to have added 2 r's and an e) government being in power *shrug*

[Snowy79]

The above posts highlight even more why Ed Millibland and Labour shouldn't be allowed to run a bath. They say they are against the majority of welfare cuts. Pretend they don't support privatisation yet help it to go through and say they will borrow more to stimulate the economy.

Looking at this as an intelligent person the Conservatives (and I also can't stand them) cut borrowing, reduce the welfare budget and sell off companies for billions to pay off the debt yet it is still rising. Labour will fund the welfare, borrow more, be against privatisation so not have the money to pay off debts and even restrict companies from making as much profit as they can and so pay more tax. I don't think for a minute by limiting their profits they'll pay more and suddenly the debt will drop. They're even going to increase the minimum wage which even though we know it's just a vote catcher will increase the costs to companies who will either increase their prices or move overseas. They're complete f witts. Can anyone else smell the Labour bull.

[GastonJ]

Surely if they had cut borrowing the debt would be going down though, not up? If I cut my borrowing I'd be expecting my overall debt to be going downwards. Perhaps my expectations of "cutting debt" are wrong in that I thought we'd borrow less and as a result owe less. It must be a finance thing when you cut debt and owe more, perhaps Dave is using the wrong bankers, or he doesn't understand the meaning of "cutting debt".

It does seem as though we all got it wrong and the cuts that Dave and co are making are designed to to increase the overall debt. Dave will be safe when he gets kicked out of office - Wonga would employ him in seconds.

[Snowy79]

There's a difference between debt and borrowing. Debt is what you owe. It's hit with an interest rate. So if you borrow ?100 at 5% interest after one year you are in debt of ?105 if you don't pay any back. If your Ex wife or previous boss (Labour) borrowed shi@ loads you'd have shi@ loads more to pay back which increases with interest.

You still have bills to pay and spongers to feed so you still have to borrow to top up your wages (Shaft the Tax Payer) but instead of borrowing ?100 you only borrow ?90. The rest is made up by selling your wedding ring (post office). At the end of the year you now only owe ?94.50. It's still a lot but thats why she's an Ex wife.

This as any banker will tell you is why you can borrow less yet your debt still increases. Now if you had a muppet in charge who instead of borrowing ?100 borrows ?105 you'd owe ?110.50 at the end of the year and as you've not sold off any wedding rings etc you wouldn't be able to pay other bills (spongers) and all hell would break out. Before you know it your debt will increase to such an extent you'd be declared bankrupt; like a few other countries who had to borrow to fund ideas that got people into power who didn't realy give a shi@ as they're on masive wages and pensions so will never suffer.

[GastonJ]

So you owe ?100, you have ?90 coming in, you cut ?30 of what you have coming in (only spending ?60 a year on crap you're told you need) to start paying off the ?100. Before you pay anything you own ?105, you pay the ?30, so you owe ?75, next year with interest you owe ?78.75, you pay ?30 off and you owe ?48, next year with interest you owe ?50.40 and you pay ?30 off 3rd year you only ow ?20.48 + 5% interest, so in the 4th year has gone out of debt, owing nothing, nada, Wonga can go ck themselves.

Even an idiot could work that out (I probably calculated it wrong ) The debt reduces, amazing maths eh We've had cuts for 3 years and yet the debt has just about doubled I can only think that someone got an F in their O levels, or is taking backhanders.

[Snowy79]

It was be great if it was that simple. Sadly the debt is almost the equivelent of what the country makes every year. The figures are scary. Something like 1.37 Trillion pounds.The interest alone on that is approx 2.3 Billion per week.

I think at last count George Osborne was looking at an 80 Billion pound reduction on spending over 4 years up to 2015 by cutting back on loads of services and benefits.

We all know the shi@ that hit the fan when his cut backs were announced. Taking these cut backs into account, they if nothing changes equate to 20 Billion per year or just about 1/6th of the interest on our debt each year. So even with these cut backs we're falling further into debt.

People are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think any other political party would do it any other way. Even Labour has said it will stick with the Lib Con spending plans. Ed Milliband must be pissing himself. His supporters shout and clap when he talks down about the Lib Cons hammering the people of Britian and only looking after the rich yet will stick with the same cut backs. It's like catching your two best mates shagging you misses then going down the pub with one of them, having a drink and saying how bad the other one is but you're alright because you've told me he's no good. Either way whoever is in someone is still getting shagged.

A lot of our debt is to foreign Countries and Banks. If these were to call the loans in the UK would be bankrupt over night. The only reason they don't call these debt in is due to these Countries and Banks owning the vast majority of our old National Companies and being allowed to cream off the profits. That's why Labour and the Conservatives etc will never re-nationalise our assets. Take your blinkers off and ask why Labour roll out the Maggie card to the uneducated sheep, yet have never once reversed any of her policies.

[GastonJ]

About 30% of our debt is held by foreign interests, the rest is held by banks and funds in the UK. I have no blinkers I don't need them and they hamper my reading however the UK has more or less been in debt for 200 years out of the last 250, so it's the norm for us and the debt has been much higher than it is currently, in the 1940's it was 200% of GDP. What we're lacking this time around is a manufacturing industry to sell goods sell around the world to get money back. Maggie sold almost everything we had in the 1980's so we have very little left to sell short of the post office which is now up for grabs. I already have my "For Sale" sign ready to post on Dover when Dave gives the word.

It's not that the debt doesn't have to be paid off, we all know it has, it's the smiley backstabbing, kick the proverbial 'working class' manner that the Tories, and in the past the Whigs (which for those who don't know is Cleggy's lot) do it, usually driven by the greed of their donors at the cost of those less privileged. Inflation is overtaking pay rises for most people and yet the government shout and only care about the bonus's of bankers. You tell me is that a sign that "we're all in it together" ?

[gc1966]

the amazing thing to me is how the tories make no mention of a coalition next time and consider they are able to win it themselves outright next time,now that is cloud cuckoo land,debt is debt and has always been part and parcel of each and every govts responsibility to manage it (which none seems to master in any varying degree) so lets just dispense with that part of these clowns manifesto.am I better off now than 3 years ago,no,we had massive debt under the labour govt but I had more money in my pocket,the ability to see a hospital specialist if needed with 2 weeks(in a lovely newly built state of the art hospital no less),my urban environment had money pumped into parks and recreation which with the more money I had I could spend in these places,the local schools were funded well,i could visit a library on any given day of the week(of my own choosing).I am just scraping the surface of the things that have been removed from my everyday choices with in the last 3 years and I expect no less.i am working class at the moment but could easily slip into to portion of society that some posters here regard as scum and scroungers and as such would never look down on them.if we have another term of tory rule then that could well become reality for all of us.