B.N.P AND QUESTION TIME

[on_the_jazz]

I never watch Fox, and I'm not American. This is simply the way it is in reality.....you aren't seriously trying to defend the extremists are you mate ? Come on now. It is what it is. And don't try and derail this thread into a witch hunt please. It's been doing superbly up to now, let's keep the respect for each other's opinion eh ?

It's not a witch hunt at all. Freedom has nothing to do with it. The reasons are plain and have been laid out by the terrorists themselves time and time again.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the guy who was tried for 9/11) - "if the target would have been strictly military or government, the American people would not focus on the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel against the Palestinian people and America's self-serving foreign policy that corrupts Arab governments and leads to further exploitation of the Arab/Muslim peoples."

Osama Bin Laden - "We have demonstrated and stated many times, for more than two-and-a-half-decades, that the cause of our disagreement with you is your support to your Israeli allies who occupy our land of Palestine".

Stop the misinformation and people can come to a solution sooner.

[manxspud]

@thered i wanted to answer your comments in post #35

the party is trying to get away from the stereotypical image of the bnp to which everyone relates to which is skinheads and swastika's. the bnp has moved and so have its followers you will find that a lot are proffesional people doctors,nurses,police officers and a great deal of oap's who remember what it was like in the war and are now disgusted by how the country is run

In 2004, the Association of Chief Police Officer barred police officers and PCSOs from joining/or being members
of the British National Party (BNP).

i don't see how somebody's job excludes them from been racist. to say professionals are part of the bnp there fore they have moved on is very unrealistic.

Griffin comes from a wealthy family with a history of involvement in right-wing politics.
His father, Edwin, a Conservative Party official in Halesworth, admits to having attended
National Front meetings in the past. Griffin's sister also stood as an NF candidate in a
Suffolk county council election. His mother is the administration secretary of the BNP
and was a candidate in the 2001 general election.
Griffin was taken to his first NF meeting at the age of 15 by his father, but did not
officially join the party until he was a student at Cambridge University, where he studied
law. Griffin was quick to rise up through the ranks of the party, becoming the national
organiser by 1978.
In 1980, Griffin launched Nationalism Today with the help of Joe Pearce, a convicted
racist and editor of Bulldog. Nationalism Today became the springboard for the Third
Positionist ideas that the NF later adopted. Through Nationalism Today, Griffin and
Pearce were able to formulate the idea that a "third way", or "third position", was needed
to transcend the evils of both capitalism and communism, both of which they claimed
were rooted in a similar ideology of concentrating private ownership in very few hands,
infringing on the right of independence of nation states and, most fundamentally, being
Zionist (that is, Jewish) controlled.

In 1989, Griffin left the NF and formed the International Third Position, a crazy and
fanatically Catholic fascist group. The ITP campaigned against Coca Cola, McDonald's,
urbanisation and "Zionism" (the Jews)

in 1995 griffin joined the bnp... became editor of spearhead in 1996... he took over leadership from john tyndall in 1999 in a bitter battle for that leadership. a part of his ideal was to make the bnp more respectable and acceptable... and to not only take votes from the working class but also the middle class.

Particularly illuminating was the testimony of the Scottish Blood and Honour boss Steve Cartwright who went on record with his memories of Griffin in Wales in the mid-1990s. ?Our meeting with Griffin went well,? recalled Cartwright, ?he pushed all the right buttons, emphasising militancy as well as paying due respect to the Nationalists and National Socialists of the past. He also spoke of the need to re-package and modernise our beliefs in the hope of reaching the British public.? He went away satisfied that this was the man to succeed the veteran BNP leader, John Tyndall.
Griffin?s trial in 1998 on race hate charges arising from statements denying the Holocaust in The Rune, a magazine that he edited, and his Holocaust denying performance on The Cook Report further impressed this hardline nazi faction within the BNP that ?our man had balls?. During the leadership election campaign Griffin used Tony Lecomber, who had served two three-year prison sentences on explosives charges and for assaulting a Jewish teacher, as his hatchet man to circulate the most defamatory personal smears against Tyndall. In September 1999 Griffin was elected chairman.
However Griffin soon let down the hardliners who had backed him and sided with the ?modernising? faction led by Lecomber and Eddy Butler, realising that he was more likely to gain political power following their agenda than that of the ?neo-nazis?. And for a while all was well.


Russ Green, MEP candidate for the West Midlands, posted recently on Darby's web page: "If we allowed Indians, Africans, etc to join [the BNP], we would become the 'British multi-National party' ... and I really do hope that never happens!"


Dave Strickson, a BNP organiser who helps run its eastern region European election campaign, carried on his personal "Thurrock Patriots" blog a recent report of the fatal stabbing of a teenager in east London beneath the words "Another teen stabbed in Coon Town". The site also carried a mock-up racist version of the US dollar entitled "Obama Wog Dollar".

Lee Barnes, the BNP's senior legal officer and one of Griffin's closest allies, has posted a video on his personal blog of a black suspect being beaten by police officers in the US and describes it as "brilliant". Barnes adds: "The beating of Rodney King still makes me laugh."

Martin Page is a BNP treasurer and his wife Kim is a senior fundraiser for the party. Both have been photographed alongside Benny Bullman, the lead singer of Whitelaw, the white supremacist band whose songs include Fetch the Noose, We're Coming for You and For White Pride.

Garry Aronsson, Griffin's running mate for the European parliament in the North West, posts an avatar on his personal web page featuring a Nazi SS death's head alongside the statement, "Speak English Or Die!" Aronsson proclaims on the site: "Every time you change your way of life to make immigrants more comfortable you betray OUR future!" He lists his hobbies as "devising slow and terrible ways of paying back the Guardian-reading ****s who have betrayed the British people into poverty and slavery.

The BNP organiser for Waltham Forest, Alan Gould, was convicted of racially abusing people in a pub in 2000.

National Democratic Party, Germany?s leading nazi group. NPD leaders deny the Holocaust took place and revere Adolf Hitler. The NPD shares many of its activists with the outlawed Blood and Honour skinhead movement. Griffin addressed a NPD rally in August 2002. NPD activists have attended BNP events in Britain.

Blood and Honour is the openly nazi skinhead organisation in Britain. Many of its leaders are BNP members and Blood and Honour nazi bands have raised money for the BNP.

Robert Bennett. A leading activist in Oldham BNP during the 2002 elections campaign, Bennett has served five years in prison for the gang rape of a woman. He has also served seven years for armed robbery and has over 30 convictions in total.

Most of all, Griffin?s anti-Muslim stance is hypocrisy. In the mid-1980s when he was a leading officer in the National Front he openly cavorted with Islamic extremists. He supported the Ayatollah Khomeini?s fundamentalist regime in Iran, and sought backing from Libya?s Colonel Gaddafi.

The attempts by the BNP to portray a more moderate image are often dropped when addressing events abroad. Speaking to a private nazi meeting in the US in 2001, Nick Griffin admitted that the party?s new-found respectability was simply a tactic to con the British people. ?My politics have not changed,? he told the audience of racists and nazis. ?I still believe in fighting for this,? he added, pointing to his white skin.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw]YouTube - BNP MEP Nick Griffin + KKK Terrorist[/ame]


has the bnp changed... or is it just following the plan and promise made by nick griffin 10yrs ago!!!!!

[manxspud]

@lost_boy thats just the type of thing we don't want in this thread... any fool can chop up a video... f**k i made a living from it.

ps... had it been in the comedy section i would have pmsl m8.

[Raven]

It's not a witch hunt at all.

I know it's not, let's just keep it that way before it starts.

Freedom has nothing to do with it.

It's all about freedom, every last bit of it. After all what did poor Ken Bigley ever do to anyone ? He wasn't exactly harming anyone's freedoms, in fact the sickening atrocity that befell him and his fellow captured was pure terrorism and cowardice committed by animals with no morals and they did it for what they saw as their certain freedom....so the proof is in the pudding mate, it's all about freedom - beyond that it's about power and greed. The only question is who's willing to kill for it. Be it terrorism or politics. One extreme or the other. Look at how Kennedy ended up.

But on a personal note between us I'd just like to add it's all about respect, I've said it more than once in this thread so let's please remember that and kudos to the vast majority of people keeping it civil, mature and above all respectful. That's what it's all about.

[on_the_jazz]

It's all about freedom, every last bit of it. After all what did poor Ken Bigley ever do to anyone ? He wasn't exactly harming anyone's freedoms, in fact the sickening atrocity that befell him and his fellow captured was pure terrorism and cowardice committed by animals with no morals and they did it for what they saw as their certain freedom....so the proof is in the pudding mate, it's all about freedom. Be it terrorism or politics. One extreme or the other.

I think we should stick to the facts. I pasted some quotes which are directly from court trials and tapes. Those were the terrorists own words and reasons.

You have given an example of a man who was kidnapped in Iraq. They kidnapped him because he was in their country, and he was a US citizen. They first asked for the release of some prisoners for his release before eventually killing him. Sad as that is if they had hated freedom or had a personal grudge he would have been dead immediately. They only saw him as a bargaining chip/example to be made, nothing more.

And I'd just like to add it's also all about respect, I've said it more than once in this thread and kudos to the vast majority of people keeping it civil, mature and above all respectful. That's what it's all about.

You keep saying that but I am only stating facts, not insulting anyone.

[waqasahmed]

Can I say when Ken Bigley was in Iraq, many people in the UK mosques were praying for his survival. Why on earth would Muslims in the UK pray for Ken Bigley's survival if they "arent doing enough" Whenever a terrorist attack does happen, in the Muslim community, people do speak out, but the rest see it as such a shameful act, they do nothing.

[Raven]

You have given an example of a man who was kidnapped in Iraq. They kidnapped him because he was in their country, and he was a US citizen. They first asked for the release of some prisoners for his release before eventually killing him. Sad as that is if they had hated freedom or had a personal grudge he would have been dead immediately. They only saw him as a bargaining chip/example to be made, nothing more.

Yes, exactly. But to what end ? They kidnapped 3 people 1 of them was Ken and their ransom demand if you like was the release of Iraqi women prisoners from coalition forces. Sounds like a freedom cause to me.

You keep saying that but I am only stating facts, not insulting anyone.

And so am I, I'm just a little bit further ahead than you are on this one because you're saying what they said in court or on videotape and I'm talking about the motivation behind the statements.

I keep saying it's all about respect and no you haven't insulted anyone yet but you are trying to turn this thread into a witch hunt and despite my efforts to make sure this doesn't happen it's slowly degenerating into one because above anything else you clearly aren't respecting my opinion regarding what I'm saying and that's how arguments start - like I said it's all about respect so let's keep it that way. I won't ask again, in the event I'll just ask the staff to close this thread down before it turns into a witch hunt and save us all a lot of time and shame, but I'm hoping that I don't have to resort to that, so please let's get back on the topic of BNP on Question Time and above all respect each other's opinion.

The majority have done just that so far and to their credit as well - so let's keep that up and not spoil it now. Frankly we're better than that.

[on_the_jazz]

Yeah, exactly. But to what end ? They kidnapped 3 people 1 of them was Ken and their ransom demand if you like was the release of Iraqi women prisoners from coalition forces - what part of that isn't about freedom ? It sounds to me like you're defending the terrorists.

The debate was about terrorists attacking because they hate our freedom. This was based on your quote "arab radicals who commit sucide via terrorism and behead anybody with freedom and ideals all because we don't live like they do".

You are now trying to confuse the matter by saying that because 3 people had their freedom taken (by being held captive in an occupied country) the whole issue is about freedom.

If you can't see the difference I'll stop now.

Explaining why terrorism took place is not defending terrorism.

And so am I, I'm just a little bit further ahead than you are on this one because you're saying what they said in court or on videotape and I'm talking about the motivation behind the statements. And I keep saying it's all about respect and no you haven't insulted anyone yet but you are trying to turn this thread into a witch hunt and despite my best efforts it's turning into one because above anything else you clearly aren't respecting what I'm saying and that's how arguments start - like I said it's all about respect so let's keep it that way. I won't ask again, in the event I'll just ask the staff to close this thread down before it turns into a witch hunt and save us all a lot of time and shame, so please let's get back on the topic of BNP on Question Time and above all respect each other's opinion. The majority have so far to their credit - so let's keep that up and not spoil it now. Frankly we're better than that.

Apologies if it seems like that but I thought we were having a discussion. I have seen threads go a lot further than this so I don't know why this would have to be closed. As far as I can see we are only discussing motivations. We have opposing views but neither of us has insulted the other.

edit: Ok I'll leave it there, off to bed.

[Raven]

And I appreciate that fact, and for the record I respect your opinion. I do get the feeling that we either have opposing views or our wires are crossed and we're really talking about the same thing but coming from different places....

I was simply saying terrorism of any form is an act that cannot be defended under any circumstance as the only people that suffer are innocent people. I'm also saying that one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, that is that their beliefs or ideals are born out of what they see as their freedoms or rights being as people having been taken away for one reason or another, but their actions cannot be defended because they revel in the use of the fear and blood of the innocent to make their point and that's what makes them cowards and hypocrites and that's to put it kindly.

As for the other part the reason I said about closing the thread is because you tend to spot thread derailment or especially witch hunts coming from a mile away.....and if you look up until we started debating terrorism (which is off topic anyway) almost everyone was posting maturely and respecting each others opinions above all else which is what I felt you were not doing with me with the way you were posting your points. Hence my constant statements about respecting people's opinions even if you disagree. Which is what almost everyone had done to their credit. And I don't want to see this thread go to pot because of ignorance and disrespect because there's no excuse for it.

[manxspud]

@raven... @on_the_jazz... i think you both have taken this thread a little off topic m8s. however i see no reason for not continue as long as you behave like adults and respect each others points of view. after all is that not why we all keep coming back to dk...
regards @manx

[Raven]

@raven... @on_the_jazz... i think you both have taken this thread a little off topic m8s. however i see no reason for not continue as long as you behave like adults and respect each others points of view. after all is that not why we all keep coming back to dk...
regards @manx

Totally agree m8, I've said it throughout discussion, debate whatever it's all fair game so long as people respect other's opinions and make some effort to post with a little decorum. I'm glad to see you echo my sentiments too manx. I'm just trying to keep the peace and keep the wolves away above anything else. I don't want to see this thread get spoiled and to be fair I think me and on_the_jazz had a simple initial misunderstanding where I felt he wasn't respecting my opinion and I don't think it's anything more than that. Certainly not from my end, I said it before I respect his opinion and I do, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record that's what it's all about.

[manxspud]

i was not worried m8... i know you are both decent chaps...

i just always fancied been the voice of reason

[bvilleuk]

No i said you spouted racist drivel after you posted a thread saying:



if that's your humble opinion then you are a racist

The "Why be a Suicide Bomber" article was a Cut & Paste from another Blog - nobody took it seriously on there.

[CHRISTOF]

[QUOTE=bvilleuk;318702][QUOTE=waqasahmed;318327]BNP member proximity search - October 2009 update


I don't see the point of this -- are these people going to come around and murder us in our Beds because we didn't vote B.N.P.??

ha i put in one of my old postcodes and whoever lives there now votes for them!!!!

[yaas]

Call me stupid, but isn't it the first time that Nick Griffin has been on a such a popular platform as QT. What publicity has he had before this.Absolutely zilch.

The show was the one chance for the public and other parties to scrutinise him and his party.Simple as!!!

Here is a man who just could not answer any question and whose body language and behaviour reflect his regrets about being on the show.I am sure I am not the only person that noticed the awe on his face & the way he was rubbing his hands when he was asked a question.And the stammering, etc.All those are signs of nervousness and disarray.He just did not know where to hide.

BNP's policies are racist and agains any political correctness.The people that voted for them in June are those who wanted to show protest against other parties.

The BNP's policies are hypocrytical irony, they want a country with only white people.I understand that they the UK to go back to its origin.But what I don't agree with is that the BNP is seen as a political party in a democracy who has the right to voice out its concerns about this country.

However, when Palestinians want to keep Israel from taking over their country and mosques, they(Palestinians) are shot and bombed. The West support and supply Israel with weapon to go and take over Palestine.

Here is the BNP who are openly racist and they still have the right to call themselves a political party!!!