Help need with a contract of employment issue

[happy_highlander]

Here is the situation I have. I currently have a date set for an employment tribunal for unauthorized deduction from wages but had an informal discussion with MD (God in his eyes) where he inadvertantly on purpose let me read an internal memo distributed to the other 2 directors (his son and son inlaw) stating the fundamental changes to the contract of employment he wanted to make . These changes are to change the hours of work from 40 hours between mon to friday with out of hours to be covered on a voluntary basis which the engineers cover on a rota system and reduce wages from percentage of each job to an hourly rate (we are a well known company providing 24 hour emergency service) these changes will in effect mean that we will be asked to cover 40 hours over 7 days covering 24hrs (don't know how they are going to work this as yet) but not on percentage basis but on an hourly rate with no overtime resulting in reduction of wages by between 40 and 50 percent. The memo also said the employees to be effected by these changes whould have to reapply for their jobs under the new contract (I am very well aware that the chances of me being re-employed ar very slim) Does my employer have to make me reduntant to enforce these changes. As you have probably guessed I will not be bullied and will not be agreeing to these contract changes. I will add that I have already been subject to a ?4000 a year reduction of wages after I won a case of holiday pay not reflacting earnings. #this reduction was done by retitling my job and removing equipment from my van that allowed me to generate more revenue for the company of which I was entitled to a percentage off. Extra info is just to give you an idea of the type of employer I am dealing with and may help with any suggestions as to what I can do to fight these enforced changes that are to be made. Any suggestions to the legal standings and/or similar cases and results from DK members would be much appreciated .

Thanks

[SouthernComfort]

Changes to employment contracts : Directgov - Employment

Speak to a Union rep or someone who specialises on the subject. Be well prepared BEFORE negotiations, you are entitled to take a representative with you, I highly recommend it.

[thered]

i was taking my firm to tribunal in 2009 for unlawful deduction from wages they owed me about ?1500 i settled before for around ?1200 to save the hassle i got sacked 4-5 months later

i was going to go to tribunal again took months with no cash they settled me a cash sum without tribunal but it took a long time around 8 months i didnt even get a tribunal date in that time

im not going to get into issue over your contract as i dont know how your firm operates but be careful firms have employees jumping threw hoops at the minute you may win your case but it may hit you hard and it may take a long time to win

[happy_highlander]

Changes to employment contracts : Directgov - Employment

Speak to a Union rep or someone who specialises on the subject. Be well prepared BEFORE negotiations, you are entitled to take a representative with you, I highly recommend it.

I am the closest thing to a union rep and the only person who will stand up to playground bully tactics. I have worked for him long enough to be able to second guess him and can pretty much have an answer ready for every question he has before he asks it which is why I won the last time the only problem I am likely to have is that there is a good chance he will employ a third party company to advise him in emmployment law (which I cannot afford to do) this was what he done the last time to his detriment as he was told he didn't have a leg to stand on but I think he will involve them at an earlier stage this time. However he will still open his mouth before he thinks and is guaranteed to put his foot in it. I just need to find out if he has to make me redundant to make me reapply for my job (which i will be turned down for)under the new contract or can I refuse to work under the new contract with out leaving and filing for constructive dismissal. (I would rather have the redundancy money than have to fight for constructive dismissal for breach of contract) and as my employer is a franchisee can I find any help from the parent company for his inappropriate behaviour.
I will just add that he did tell me that one way or the other the engineers concerned will be receiving a pay cut to pay for the extra admin staff he has had to employ under pressure from the parent company as he does not want their pay eating into his profits. (Nasty piece of work I know) and I am ashamed to say he was born in Scotland, and can only imagine if he was trading in Scotland I would not be standing alone and he would be lying with a bloody nose and may well find himself in that position once I figure out where the cctv cannot see.

[happy_highlander]

i was taking my firm to tribunal in 2009 for unlawful deduction from wages they owed me about ?1500 i settled before for around ?1200 to save the hassle i got sacked 4-5 months later

i was going to go to tribunal again took months with no cash they settled me a cash sum without tribunal but it took a long time around 8 months i didnt even get a tribunal date in that time

im not going to get into issue over your contract as i dont know how your firm operates but be careful firms have employees jumping threw hoops at the minute you may win your case but it may hit you hard and it may take a long time to win

I do know this is the middle of the end as the begining of the end started just over a year ago when I beat him the first time. My tribunal date is already set for the deductions from wages but the problem is that I won't work under the new contract cleaning other peoples sh1t and leaving myself vunerable to every blood born virus for not much more than the NWM

[masur123]

I have been through this as a manager several times. If you are making fundamental changes to an employees terms and conditions then the firm has a right to say the job has significantly changed, and that employees will need to reapply for the job with a different title, or take redundancy. What they cant do is force you to reapply for your job or leave without compensation (redundancy pay).

[happy_highlander]

I have been through this as a manager several times. If you are making fundamental changes to an employees terms and conditions then the firm has a right to say the job has significantly changed, and that employees will need to reapply for the job with a different title, or take redundancy. What they cant do is force you to reapply for your job or leave without compensation (redundancy pay).

Cheers that is kinda what i thought but the job title will not change and neither will the duties only a 40 to 50 percent reduction in wages to pay for admin staff, and as far as I can work out we will be asked to work 40 hours per week as and when required. For example if we run out of work at 3pm we be asked to go home and will only have worked 6 hrs that day and them may be told we will have to wait at home and go out that evening to do the extra 2 hours for example from midnight till 2am if that is when a job comes in or work the sat and sunday to make up the hours which I can guarantee he will make sure we have not completed midweek without any bonus pay for out of hours work I will state that parent company policy and prices classes out of hours from 6pm to 8 am mon to fri and sat and sun jobs also have an out of hours charge

[masur123]

Split day working is becoming more and more common in industry, however you are legally entitled to an 11 hour break everyday. Your contract may change to a 40 hour week, instead of an 8 hour day, and become 5 from 7 days. However you have every right to ask for a static shift pattern, regardless of whether it is split or not ( 6 hours 8-2, 2 hours 6-8 for instance) is not an unreasonable request. All other call outs after this should be overtime, or voluntary.
To me that is a massive change, the empoyer still needs to justify why these changes are coming in, and if you are not happy then dont sign. However you could then face the sack, and have to raise with a tribunal for unfair dismissal, and any employer worth their salt would have all the right answers.
Note everything, put everything in writing and keep all correspondance from your employer just in case!

[reddevil157]

I would never refuse to do anything, always do it under protest, as you can get the sack for refusal to work. It' would seem that he is making your "now" job, as you know it redundant, so why should you not get redundancy. Also never go into meeting without a union rep, there usually crap, but it's just to have a witness as to what's been said.

[Bulld0g]

Not an answer as such but just my pennies worth on bullying bosses these days.

Reading this thread just strengthens what I believe,that everyone should be in a union. If you were in a union you would have had proper representation from someone who would have known all the legalities, and this peace of mind only costs around ?2 a week.
People need to join a union mow more than ever, with many many companies taking the piss and using the recession to bully people into doing things which they don't really have to do but do so for fear of losing their job.

[Bulld0g]

I would never refuse to do anything, always do it under protest, as you can get the sack for refusal to work. It' would seem that he is making your "now" job, as you know it redundant, so why should you not get redundancy. Also never go into meeting without a union rep, there usually crap, but it's just to have a witness as to what's been said.

Don't think all reps are crap because the ones you have come across have been. You don't need a rep to be a witness you can take a friend in with you. However the friend will probably feel intimidated whereas a rep will not

[happy_highlander]

I am more than happy to face them on my own as the rest of my workmates have proved in the past that they are too spineless to stand up him but are more than happy to benefit from the outcome of all the grievences I have sorted for them and that includes doubling there holiday pay from my last put the world to rights mission and I agree with bulldog wholeheartedly but have met my fair share of bad reps as well as good ones we had no less than 7 union reps in my family in the late 70's early eighties which is probably why I will not stand for corporate bullying and am quite happy to put my job on the line as it will not be worth having once the changes are made. I have resigned myself to the fact that my time with this company is over but I intend to make sure that I am given everything I am entiled to. No more but no less is all I ask. After all I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to be paid for the work that I have done. Can I ask for all meetings to be recorded and does anybody need a good drainage engineer

[SouthernComfort]

You do not need to be a member of a Union to be represented, be assured your employer will have done his homework, be sure you have done yours.
Now is the time to seek advice, after the tribunal is too late, as has been mentioned a Union Rep can, not only speak on your behalf but, act as a witness to anything your employer states.
In fact you do not even have to speak, other than to acknowledge them, thereby implicating yourself, he does not have this luxury.
Using a representative restrains your employer from using intimidating practices to coerce you into anything, times are hard and employers are using all kinds of tactics to "keep the numbers down".
Everything can and should be recorded but you must make him aware.

[happy_highlander]

You do not need to be a member of a Union to be represented, be assured your employer will have done his homework, be sure you have done yours.
Now is the time to seek advice, after the tribunal is too late, as has been mentioned a Union Rep can, not only speak on your behalf but, act as a witness to anything your employer states.
In fact you do not even have to speak, other than to acknowledge them, thereby implicating yourself, he does not have this luxury.
Using a representative restrains your employer from using intimidating practices to coerce you into anything, times are hard and employers are using all kinds of tactics to "keep the numbers down".
Everything can and should be recorded but you must make him aware.

The problem with not being in a union is that any representative that I take to a meeting with me cannot answer or speak for me but are essentially only there as moral support and to confirm or discount anything shared verbally and from what was written on memo any meetings about contract changes will be done with all engineers concerned as a group but whether they will stand up for themselves at a later date will have to be seen to be believed so to take another person in to sit quietly beside my 4 workmates while I ask the questions seems a bit silly

[SouthernComfort]

To make it simple, Law is Law, anything that deviates from that, regardless of what your employer states, can be discarded. While most Reps are useless most of the time, it is their job to know this law intimately, his presence alone will be enough.