Bedroom tax, new thread !

[firestorm]

If some one is on benefits, then that is what the state deems the amount of money needed to survive.That is why when you read about some one in the local rag who has been done in court for no insurance and they get 7 points and a ?165 fine, yet some one else is done for the same offense they get 7 points ?400 fine. The only difference is there income ie one works and one is on benefits.The court have to take this in to effect when passing sentence/Fine that is why the guy with the low fine will be paying it off say?3 a week.
When this new tax comes in how long do you think it will be before some clever lawyer takes up some ones case against bedroom tax. Then argues the point i have just made that it will put them below the poverty line.Thus it is against some ones human rights to be evicted from there life long family home or be forced into poverty?

[Saltire]

cheers firestorm, just as I said too mate

[thered]

with great respect mate, I personally think your talking a bit of rubbish, infact I know you are.

The person or people I am talking about (could be me or my family, who knows, something I will never disclose on the internet), anyway, they already cant afford to pay for thier food and fuel (gas & lekky) right now, and now they have to MAGIC up ?50 per month just because they have a spare bedroom (stealth tax), and into the bargain I hear very strong and seemingly true rumors we are also now being asked to MAGIC up 8.5% a month towards council tax too, has anyone heard of this new one yet, I have photos, have a look.

(zoom in on the photos so that you can see them a bit better).

just seen the photos might be a bit hard to make out the text, sorry for that, its the best I could do from what I had, but those are from an official source at the job centre or DWP or whatever its called nowdays (an insider), they change the names for certain depts so often now I forget the name of them, but they are defo official and what I said above bascially is just saying what the photos are showing anyway.

I got asked to votey/type questionairre on council tax last year did you not get same???


It asked whether you think people should get it all paid on benefit?

Do you think they people on benefit should make a comtribution?

It asked more but i think that was the crux of the matter

Yes it will definately come in at some point.


Regards GMB's post ?60pw is pitiful wage i agree, gas,electric,water ,food but i could survive no problem tbh

Budgeting its called, it means people may have to cook, keep out of takeaway, knock drink and fags down and stop buying scratchcards.

Cos everyone on the dole does that where i live

Or they can get a job, mcdonalds, kfc's take on all the time pizza and take away shops always need delivery drivers for fiddle work

People who do actually want to work do painting,plastering, gardening, fix cars on front for people or whatver you can to make extra money.

There is always ways to make money even if its washing cars or buying stuff and selling it on ebay

All depends if you can be bothered, or if they are to busy topping up mobiles, smoking green and playing on facebook all day

I do not know one solitary person who lives in a 2 bedroom house on their own on JSA.

The only people i know on jsa who live on their own live in council flats, the other people live with single mums and claim seperately

I do realise that this may not be the case for everyone but its certainly the most popular scenario imo

[Hoppy01]

This policy is definitely not a one fits all solution,

it's now been discovered people who foster children will have to pay it, because the council have decided that bedrooms aren't being used on a permanent basis,

the mother of two soldiers who are fighting overseas(for this country) will have to pay it because her sons are away for periods of time,

disabled people who need a bigger house so it can be adapted for wheelchair use, will have to pay it,

it's obviously hasn't been thought out properly, and will lead court cases, much like the work program did,

but what do you expect when the country is being run by Tim but slightly dim, and his chums

For me, the post above kills any pro argument for this joke of a tax.
A honestly didn't have time to look at the pro's and con's but after reading that post my blood is boiling and my hate of the Tories is even deeper seeded.

Foster Parents are the salt of the earth, these are people who have no obligation to take kids who are in some cases in a bad way.
Would that not contradict Mr Camerons Big Society, hey do what you can to help make Britain better and here is a bloody big tax bill for your efforts.
But a suppose its a case of, "i'm alright Jack so f*** children who need a home and f*** the generous people who offer one.".

Then we send our boys to countries they cant even spell to risk life and limb, some don't come back with limbs, some don't come back at all.
Don't worry because your Government is making sure your peasant of a Mum is paying extra for your empty room.
Thank you for fighting for your country and seeing things that no MP will ever have to suffer and here is your f****** tax bill as a reward.

A hope none of you ever need a wheelchair, apart from the shock of being confined to a wheelchair its good to know that the Government is there.
Yip they are there to make sure you pay your way scumbag, you wanna park that thing in a spare room then rent a garage or pay for the extra room, our bankers need your money for fun at the casino.
Our Chancellor also needs more money for coke and prostitutes and printing more money for the untouchable bank bonuses scumbag.

Yip our Government once again has thought this through, by the way, if your a Lib Dem MP, KILL YOURSELF, KILL YOURSELF NOW, a hope your 5min of fame was worth it but your party is finished and good riddance to you.

Its the same old crap and they will never change, take from the poor, give to the filthy rich, welcome to Tory land, taking Britain back 50yrs...

[bonus2010]

Yep it's a joke all right!



The thing is, this is tory... what's next?

maybe.. applying to old age pensions BT.. kicking them out on the streets?

.. privatising the NHS? Why not? I can hear the tories saying "I've got private healthcare insurance" I'm okay Jack

... no bus passes for the old folks to get around?

... who's next for cuts?

[rds60h]

What will be interesting over the coming year or two is what places the councils will be offering people who are homeless. I'm going to guess that with a lot of people not having families that the waiting lists will grow and grow. I'd also expect that more privately rented bedsits will appear at stupid rents for the government to pay, so we can be back in the 1980's again and feel at home.

Luton Borough Council later this year are changing their Policy on Housing the Homeless, they will be offered Private Rental Properties if there are no Council or Partnered Housing Association Properties available.
Once in Private Rental the Council withdraws it's responsibility to housing them, if they refuse the Private Rental again the Council will withdraw their responsibility.
Basically they are withdrawing their responsibility to find emergency temporary accomodation until a Council property is available.
So, you are unemployed, homeless then place into Private Rental.............you find employment, but the income is not enough to pay the rent, so the landlord throws you out.............you are now homeless and you must now start on the merry go round again !

[Snowy79]

I've got to admit it's one of the worst thought out ideas I've heard in a while. It's got to be a smoke screen for something else they've got up their sleave. Even the muppets on the radio and tv all seam to be set ups. Single parents with a tribe of kids by different dads that are now second generation unemployed.

[thered]

Luton Borough Council later this year are changing their Policy on Housing the Homeless, they will be offered Private Rental Properties if there are no Council or Partnered Housing Association Properties available.
Once in Private Rental the Council withdraws it's responsibility to housing them, if they refuse the Private Rental again the Council will withdraw their responsibility.
Basically they are withdrawing their responsibility to find emergency temporary accomodation until a Council property is available.
So, you are unemployed, homeless then place into Private Rental.............you find employment, but the income is not enough to pay the rent, so the landlord throws you out.............you are now homeless and you must now start on the merry go round again !

Think most private rents are on shorthold assured tenancy this enables most people to be fairly well up pecking order for council houses once they have been homed for initial 6 month contract which is the usual for new tennants

I understand this may not help people get a council house if there is none available but when i first tried to get a council house i told them i was homeless, i wasnt but i thought it would get me a place quicker. It was useless i had to private rent which i did for around 2 years

I then found out that if i was on a shorthold tenancy agreement it would give me enough points to get a house i had 2 offered in a month from submitting application because of this

[rds60h]

Think most private rents are on shorthold assured tenancy this enables most people to be fairly well up pecking order for council houses once they have been homed for initial 6 month contract which is the usual for new tennants

I understand this may not help people get a council house if there is none available but when i first tried to get a council house i told them i was homeless, i wasnt but i thought it would get me a place quicker. It was useless i had to private rent which i did for around 2 years

I then found out that if i was on a shorthold tenancy agreement it would give me enough points to get a house i had 2 offered in a month from submitting application because of this

I have been homeless with a family and spent 18 months in emergency temporary accomodation before being offered a house which was on a take it or leave it and taken off the housing list offer.
In my area being in private accomodation makes you exempt from applying for council housing unless you can prove overcrowding or an imminent threat of violence towards you.
Your area obviously seems to be much more lax and perhaps the reason you see so much abuse of the system and hence your opinion of this.

[Saltire]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghVWVG3OA5A&feature=player_embedded]Stewart Hosie SNP 'This Bedroom tax only works if the policy fails!' - YouTube[/ame]

[flyingpig]

I have read many arguments and comments about this thread from the good to the stupid, both for and against on this site.

Why do soldiers keep getting brought into it? Lots of people use this as a way to get out of paying, and genuinely if they have family in the army earning a living, then I am only too sure that the person who is doing his or her job in the armed forces and earning a good salary shoudl send some money home to fund the bedroom so that when they return, they can live with their parents - after all its ?11 p/w for the 1st bedroom - hardly breaking the bank of a soldier to support their mum or dad?

On the issues of foster care, if you have children from mixed marriages they cannot share a room, if you have foster children you the childrean cannot share a room.

The ethos behing the tax is a good thing - it makes people accountable. Why on earth should people who dont work live in bigger houses than what is required and get it paid for by the state. If they want to live there, then pay the extra, if you dont then move!!

There are definitely some issues and it wont run easy, there will always be some people who are caught out by the system, and by that I mean people who we know shouldnt have to pay, but playing by the rules they are forced to pay. To counter this, each local authoity has discretionary payments to cover this for households which are required.

How does it break someones human rights to evict them from their home when they havent paid the rent due? the rent is not changing at all!!! If I dont pay by mortgage will you stand with me when I am being evicted for non payment saying it is against my human rights !! FFS there is some sh!te floating about.

Housing Providers only survive from rents, if it doesn't come in , they wont have a house to live in, as HP's are now businesses, although they do not make profits. As a taxpayer, I know that I dont want to subsidise social housing as well as the housing benefit system. Let the b!stards who want to live in a 4 bed house when there is only one person in there, with their grandchildren staying every other weekend!!! Let them effing pay!!!! They want it, they pay for it!!!

[andy1967]

[QUOTE=flyingpig;1890097]I have read many arguments and comments about this thread from the good to the stupid, both for and against on this site.

Why do soldiers keep getting brought into it? Lots of people use this as a way to get out of paying, and genuinely if they have family in the army earning a living, then I am only too sure that the person who is doing his or her job in the armed forces and earning a good salary shoudl send some money home to fund the bedroom so that when they return, they can live with their parents - after all its ?11 p/w for the 1st bedroom - hardly breaking the bank of a soldier to support their mum or dad?

At 17 years of age in the Army you bring home around ?340 a week after training, yes send the money home just like if you have a morgage while away on duty.

[Saltire]

Why do soldiers keep getting brought into it? Lots of people use this as a way to get out of paying, and genuinely if they have family in the army earning a living, then I am only too sure that the person who is doing his or her job in the armed forces and earning a good salary shoudl send some money home to fund the bedroom so that when they return, they can live with their parents - after all its ?11 p/w for the 1st bedroom - hardly breaking the bank of a soldier to support their mum or dad?

Can I first of all ask seriously, have you been sent in here to try and stir things up because saying what you have just said above certainly has stirred things up ?

The ethos behing the tax is a good thing - it makes people accountable. Why on earth should people who dont work live in bigger houses than what is required and get it paid for by the state. If they want to live there, then pay the extra, if you dont then move!!

Your defo sent in to try and stir it up, , but your entitled to your say same as everyone else mate I guess, I dont think youve been reading this full thread carefully, have you ?

Where do you prupose these people move to, how many 100's of thousands is this going to effect and how many houses are available or being built, its already been spoke about mate ??

[thered]

I have been homeless with a family and spent 18 months in emergency temporary accomodation before being offered a house which was on a take it or leave it and taken off the housing list offer.
In my area being in private accomodation makes you exempt from applying for council housing unless you can prove overcrowding or an imminent threat of violence towards you.
Your area obviously seems to be much more lax and perhaps the reason you see so much abuse of the system and hence your opinion of this.

I suppose its largely relevant to area i was offered emergency accomodation in hostel, they said it was the only way to get a house and it would still take months maybe even years, i got a private rent found out about that applied again and i went in top band and was housed within a month

On the other side do you not think that this move can potentially help people who were in your situation?

The alternative is borrow more billions make a million new houses, it would give economy a huge temporary lift no doubt, but then what? ten years down the line 50% of new houses or whatever back on housing benefit and then even more strain on the econmomy with the extra debt from borrowing and more benefit

Then they will all be filled as soon as they are built and before you know it same problems again no houses left

The outlook for this country doesnt look good tbh, population is growing, old people are living longer. NHS bills are soaring, benefit and pension payments are getting bigger year on year

We have an economy that i dont think the country can sustain indefinately, something will have to give

That may mean more income tax and vat rises, but that runs the risk that the very people who make this country money may all start pissing off to the likes of Australia, taking needed skills and revenue away

Like it or not these are all issues that need addressing, as there may come a time when things like the NHS are gone forever.

Mp's most people loathe them but they have an impossible job, there are always many unhappy people after every budget or every financial decision

To get elected you need votes nobody wants to upset voters, it doesnt work for re-election. Labour tried the other way borrow what it couldnt afford to please the people and stay in power, and to be fair not many people give a crap about what will happen in ten year or so they only think about now

But that is why we have the now

Do you honestly think they want to lose the next election?

More desperate times desperate measures

[Saltire]

On the other side do you not think that this move can potentially help people who were in your situation?

You have to be kidding right ?

even with the money they would make from everyone paying this bedroom tax (which wont happen) there would only be enough money to build litrally some 1 bedroom homes, remember we'r talking about 100's of thousands of people being effected here, not 900 people or something like that, and we'r talking about from the top of Scotland to the bottom of England !