Another Math Problem

[Mjolinor]

Sorry Mjolinor but it does come down to teaching. If we cannot teach our youngest the proper way (which I personally disagree with anyway) in the first place then how can we expect them to know in later life, if like me, they don't like or care for math?

The question still stands, what makes BODMAS right. It may be semantics but what is the reasoning behind it?

Of course it comes down to teaching it always must. The problem is that the teachers do not understand numbers and numbering systems. The only fix for this is to make teaching a more inviting profession for people rather than just leaving it to the ones that can't cut it in the real world.

The rules that now apply to arithmetic in our numbering system are the result of thousands of years of development and evolution. The Romans could not do what we can because their numbering system would not allow it, try it sometime. Multiplication in roman numerals without conversion is the biggest ball ache you have ever undertaken, that coupled with no symbol for 0 meant that under the Roman numeric system mathematics could not progress. We owe our current system, for the most part to Pakistan and it is the easiest way to put down on paper a symbolic representation of problems that we all meet every day. Maybe some day there will be a better one because certainly the one we use has problems but most people are used to dealing with those problems transparently.

[pawliukazz]

if you use the calculator on your pc and do 3+4*5 you will get 35, dont think the calc on here is faulty, but then again it is microsoft so could be shite!

That's because windows calc does sum (3+4) before *5!!

Guys, i'm sorry if i offended someone, i just really get angry, when i know the "good" answer but trust me the answer is 23....

I'm 16 and i study math at school, and math is my strong part literally, but it's your choice to believe me, or to continue this discussion...

[masur123]

I understand the logic, as I use excel quite a lot for work. I'll be honest I wasnt the best at maths, but I know the result for this is 23

[Mjolinor]

Guys, i'm sorry if i offended someone, i just really get angry, when i know the "good" answer but trust me the answer is 23....

Why get angry when someone doesn't know something?

I'm 16 and i study math at school, and math is my strong part literally, but it's your choice to believe me, or to continue this discussion...

It is not about believing or not. It is about knowing why. Being told the right answer will satisfy no one nor will it serve any purpose because the chance of meeting this particular problem again is extremely unlikely for anyone. If someone can be taught (or teach) the reasons for the answer then it will be a success but I am afraid that asking someone to believe you or not is about as dumb as laughing at people that don't know things.

[Stuart 0366]

You explain things so well, I almost hate to come back with another problem.

If it has been developed over a thousand years then why isn't it as standard in all primary levels, not just in this country but all over the world. It stands to reason that you teach it at the earliest level to attain the best for future generations. If you think about it, if we teach our primary 1 and 2 the BODMAS system, in 3 generations school teachers will know it inside out as they were originally taught it at primary level.

A thousand years still hasn't evolved the human race to use common sense very well has it? (And I still disagree with BODMAS out of principle LOL)

[pawliukazz]

Alright i will try to make this clear:

Calculators: Don't trust them, unless you are good at math and you know what sequence of the actions should be. For example 3+4*5.
what calculator do? 3+4=7, 7*5+35, but the sequence of the actions were wrong, because simple calculator does actions one by one, and it should fistly do 4*5 then to add 3 to the final answer...

Unless you have a what's called "scientific calculator".
in that calculator you could type 3+4*5 and the answer would be 23 because what scientific calc does is, it firstly does the 4*5=20, 3+20+23....

So if you are using simple calculator, and if you know the basics of the math you would firstly type 4*5+3, in this way the answer would be 23.

[pawliukazz]

Why get angry when someone doesn't know something?



It is not about believing or not. It is about knowing why. Being told the right answer will satisfy no one nor will it serve any purpose because the chance of meeting this particular problem again is extremely unlikely for anyone. If someone can be taught (or teach) the reasons for the answer then it will be a success but I am afraid that asking someone to believe you or not is about as dumb as laughing at people that don't know things.

i'm just that type of person, so again, i'm really sorry if i offended someone...

[Stuart 0366]

I certainly didn't want anyone to get angry or p*ssed off in this debate. I am not looking for any trouble here but as a couple of the guys have said, why slag or laugh at folk that don't know and for those that don't know why get het up about it. This is just a debate (an enjoyable one for me at least) and should be treated as such. I have learned things in this past hour and I hope everyone has got something out of this thread if only fine reading.

[pawliukazz]

I understand and appreciate what you are saying but (devils advocate here) who and why states that BODMAS takes precidence. In a problem as written 3+4x5 why shouldn't it be solved from left to right. What in science makes it right to instigate BODMAS?

ok another example, lets think logically.

you have a bottle of 3 liters and 5 bottles of 4 liters. How much liters of water can you take?

3+4+4+4+4+4=23 right?
so you can write 3+4*5=23 or 3+(4*5)

you think that 3+4*5=35, but it's logically not, because it would be 3+4=7, 7*5=35, and that would be 7 bottles of 5 liters.

P.S. it's my problem i get angry, it's not your fault...

[Mjolinor]

ok another example, lets think logically.

you have a bottle of 3 liters and 5 bottles of 4 liters. How much liters of water can you take?

3+4+4+4+4+4=23 right?
so you can write 3+4*5=23 or 3+(4*5)

you think that 3+4*5=35, but it's logically not.

It is not logic it is only rules. There is no logic to it. In your example then the answer is 23 as it was in the example I gave with the cans of beer but it is still not logic in the general expression of the equation it is only application of rules.

[Stuart 0366]

In the words of the great pointy eared one.....illogical ;-)

[pawliukazz]

It is not logic it is only rules. There is no logic to it. In your example then the answer is 23 as it was in the example I gave with the cans of beer but it is still not logic in the general expression of the equation it is only application of rules.

m8, the rules, and especialy the rules in the math weren't made out of nowhere, every rule in math can be aproved or proved by logically thinking.

[masur123]

Heres an easy one for you 1+1*2

[Mjolinor]

m8, the rules, and the rules in the math weren't made out of nowhere, every rule in math can be proved by logically thinking.

No they cannot. They are a set of rules that have been developed over time as a reasonably successful method of expression.

[chucklor]

How can we be expected to trust someone who can't even spell litres....no offence