Ministers defend plan to force jobless to do work

[Canker_Canison]

It is wrong to treat the long-term unemployed as criminals or less than criminals.

Lets be honest, when this idea was formed, it was the criminal & lazy ass benefit scroungers that they had in mind for this.
The original idea probably came from a comment like... '~~~~ing theiving bastard scum broke into my Jag last night! Why can't we work the coonts so hard they don't have the energy to break the law?'

But then in typical government fashion they ammended it to include the innocent as well.

Maybe a better idea is to abolish the welfare benefits system alltogether, and instead give all claimants a job
in the public sector, at least at the minimum hourly rate or the going hourly rate, with the number of
hours to match their benefit entitlement amount.

I like this idea. But it could only be in the basic, non skilled, sector. Lets face it, the people we're talking about probably have an average IQ of 60....MAX!
Unless a claimant can prove they are trained in a specific area, they can only undertake back breaking manual labour.
This could also help those skilled people find full time work again. They do their 15 hours a week benefit service doing what they did before. Then hope that as a full time position within the dept becomes available they can snap it up.

[lfc4life]

Lets be honest, when this idea was formed, it was the criminal & lazy ass benefit scroungers that they had in mind for this.
The original idea probably came from a comment like... '~~~~ing theiving bastard scum broke into my Jag last night! Why can't we work the coonts so hard they don't have the energy to break the law?'

But then in typical government fashion they ammended it to include the innocent as well.



I like this idea. But it could only be in the basic, non skilled, sector. Lets face it, the people we're talking about probably have an average IQ of 60....MAX!
Unless a claimant can prove they are trained in a specific area, they can only undertake back breaking manual labour.
This could also help those skilled people find full time work again. They do their 15 hours a week benefit service doing what they did before. Then hope that as a full time position within the dept becomes available they can snap it up.

Yes this sounds like a good solution but i can see some spongers trying there very best too get out of it!!!

[Grizz]

ive no problem with anyone who needs help getting it, any of us could become unemployed no matter how hard we try to avoid it, but i would like to see the likes of this fellow breaking rocks for 2 quid an hour........

.....we have plenty of them both sides of the pond. minimum wage is to protect workers from being taken advantage of. the likes of this guy needs to pay back society for a while

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f86/10-children-10-different-mums-161469/

[chroma]

ive no problem with anyone who needs help getting it, any of us could become unemployed no matter how hard we try to avoid it, but i would like to see the likes of this fellow breaking rocks for 2 quid an hour........

Workhouse fodder if ever i saw it.

On the subject of workhouses/poorhouses/almhouses.

They where made deliberately brutal and humiliating, so as to weed out the scam artists who would take the system for a ride. This ensured that only the seriously in need would show up at their doors.

This seems to be the new roadmap for unemployment benifit, minus the removing of kids and seperation of spouses into other sweatshops.

Personaly if i was in charge id overhaul the lot by cutting all money, giving supermarkets like Tesco, Asda and the like tax breaks in trade for little plastic cards to hand out to the unemployed for weekly shopping with an itemised bill to central government.
Supermarkes have absoloutly everything a person could feasibly need to survive, clothing, food, domesic utensils and the like.
Any "luxury" items like cigarettes or alcohol would then go on to a debt bill to be paid back to the social fund upon gainful employment, once the bill reaches a set limit then theres no more money in your account for said luxuries untill your tab is cleared.

This would effectively curb the "60inch plasma flat screen horror stories" that the rags that pass for news keep spouting.

Make it as uncomfortable as possible to claim benifits so that only the most in need will utilise the system. Just like the workhouse scenario of old.

Then see just how many "long termers" will turn their noses up at any job available that pays actual hard cash.

[Allycuk]

Here is my slant on it. I am currently an unemployed single parent (male) I have been a single parent for the last 12 years since my kids were very young. I spent the last 6 years before my unemployment going to college and university, were I graduated with a 1st class honours degree.
In the last 2 years I have applied for over 500 vacancies many of which I was over qualified for. Not one of the companies has had the common decency to reply with even a rejection letter. I am 47 and it seems no one wants to give me a chance. I run a local boys football team so I don't sit on my arse doing nothing, I think I contribute to society through this.
When I was at uni I had to tailor my subjects around the kids school time as I could not find any childcare within my area, all the spaces had been taken in all the childcare providers.
I had a very well paying job prior to taking on the kids and tried to keep working at first. I could only do this with the help of my mother who looked after them when they were young. My mother became ill and could not look after them, so I had to, reluctantly, leave my job and go onto benefits.
I am old enough to remember the last tory attack on the less well off, it was horrible and disgusting that a priviledged few could cause so much misery for millions of decent people.
So what jobs will they force me into as slave labour? Cleaning graffitti, streets or working in a supermarket? Nothing wrong with that you say, but if the jobs can be found for unemployed people why are they not there as a source of gainful employment?
And if the unemployed are to do these types of jobs, I just know that local councils will abuse it to lay of thousands of low paid workers, they did it in the 1980s so will do it again.
The tories are just using their age old philosophy here, divide the working class and conquer them. Today the unemployed, tomorrow every worker (working class) in the country.
If your lucky enough to be in a job the tory attack will hit you soon, they will begin to attack wages and drive them down to accomodate big business. You can already see your pensions taking a hit. They will decimate working class areas, again., This will make it inevitable that crime increases as people cannot afford the basics let alone luxuries, so everyone, not just the poor, will end up suffering more.
Why do you think you are paying more for everything, groceries, petrol, utility bills etc? It has little to do with a recession, why is it mainly the rich who are the ones who gain most from the lean times and the poor who lose most? I would argue the whole situation has been engineered by rich men to enable that to happen.

Your tax is used much more to keep the rich in their very priviledged positions of power, economically and politically, than it is used to help unemployed people.
Take a wee look at social history, there has always been a rich mans argument concerning deserving and undeserving poor. This is a divide and conquer policy and most people will just let it happen.
Sorry for the rant

Well said!
There are no jobs in this country that is why you see like a thousand people applying for like one vacancy in some dead end low paid job.
I personally blame corporations aswell as government as all the jobs were shipped overseas to 3rd world countries so they could pay these workers pennies and increase profit.
I remember not too long ago reading about a young 22 year old girl who commited suicide as she applied for over 500 jobs in the space of two months and got nout after getting a degree at uni.
The bankers,corporations and government have got the country into this mess and they want you,me and the unemployed and disabled to pay the price!
As for forcing the unemployed to work,that was a Nazi gerry policy!
I am British and in this country we have an NHS and a Social Welfare System and this is what we pay Taxes for....This is why the young british men and women fought in the 2nd World war against the Nazi scum.

[shellbob]

I believe we have to many immigrants in our country even if they are here to work so offer the lazy locals the jobs the immigrants are doing and if they dont take them deport them and keep the immigrants

[HoTTDubbER]

I believe we have to many immigrants in our country even if they are here to work so offer the lazy locals the jobs the immigrants are doing and if they dont take them deport them and keep the immigrants

or we could just send the immigrants home and have more jobs and homes for the british people

[mattybhoy]

Well said!
There are no jobs in this country that is why you see like a thousand people applying for like one vacancy in some dead end low paid job.
I personally blame corporations aswell as government as all the jobs were shipped overseas to 3rd world countries so they could pay these workers pennies and increase profit.
I remember not too long ago reading about a young 22 year old girl who commited suicide as she applied for over 500 jobs in the space of two months and got nout after getting a degree at uni.
The bankers,corporations and government have got the country into this mess and they want you,me and the unemployed and disabled to pay the price!
As for forcing the unemployed to work,that was a Nazi gerry policy!
I am British and in this country we have an NHS and a Social Welfare System and this is what we pay Taxes for....This is why the young british men and women fought in the 2nd World war against the Nazi scum.

Well said Allycuk!

[mattybhoy]

or we could just send the immigrants home and have more jobs and homes for the british people

The problem HD is that elements of what you may describe as the 'indigenous population' are either too work shy, happy taking benefit & working and indulging in dishonest ways of making a living. No matter how may immigrants you 'send home' there will always be this element in our society.

As for the many immagrants who go to another country to work hard and make a better life for themselves and there family I applaud them. Surely most upwordly mobile people would do the same if things were so bad in there own country. I know at least one public sector (the NHS) that would be in a bigger state if it wouldn't be for immagrant doctors and nurses.

What about multi millionaire immagrants like Al Fayad who employees hundreds of 'British' people and bring millions of pounds into the economy of this country, send them home as well?

[bonus2010]

I've never believed in imigration, either for people leaving Britain or
in allowing imigrants into Britain.

I think the argument against my view will be 'What about the need for skilled workers?'

Well, there's nothing wrong with allowing imigrants working for a company to perform
a short term contract, but more importantly there is no need to allow permanent residency ever.

As for imigrant millionaires, I'd definately send them all home. I'd rather they moved to some
poor third world country and benefited these people instead.

I feel Britain's wealthy enough,
I'm sure we don't need their money. Lets be generous....

[mattybhoy]

Britain is wealthy enough - not what the government say... 1 million job loses are a coming because this country isn't wealthy enough.

It's an interesting argument you have, but how could it work and what would be the criteria?

What if you wern't born in a country, but one of your parents were - could you stay there? The millions of ex pat Brits in Oz, USA, Spain - so they would come back to Britian many not having a job of course and many of penionable age - more stress on the pension system that is struggling to cope at present, that's why the government are looking at increasing the retirement age.

No Brits in Hollywood - that could be a blessing.. ha. No foreign footballers or managers in any leagues - the EPL would be in a state then.

What if specialised medical treatment is required by a Brit and there was no surgeon qualified to perform it in Britain. Would Brits be able to use another countries expertise and travel over or if it was the other way around would Britain allow other nationals to come over here?

We could go on and on.

[bonus2010]

All I've really said is 'I don't believe in imigration', and more importantly, to clarify
what I've meant - I'm against permanent imigrant residency.

OK, I accept you've introduced other situations like, if you're born to a parent of another country,
then... obviously common-sense would need to prevail...

I haven't suggested bringing home ex-pats. All I'm saying is, that if I were to have any say
in how Britain is run... I wouldn't allow permanent imigrant residency unless in exceptional circumstances
of the kind as you suggest.

My opinion is only based on how I believe Britain should be run, I'm not interested in how other
countries of the world are governed or wish to express any opinion on how they should be run.

I am not against tourism / health tourism /short-term employment contracts, whether inward or outward. I just don't
feel that British passports / citizenship / permanent residency should be given to any foreign national.

You mention a good point about top medical health consultants. That's why I disagree with people permanently leaving Britain,
who have been trained at usually public expense. Similarly, many third world countries loose their
skilled personal because they come to Britain. This is not good for developing countries.

And finally.... you're needing to stop listening to the government. In world terms, Britain is a
wealthy country. Oh yes, we've slipped a couple of points, think we're sixth richest economy in the world now.

Tell me, is there any other country in the world where their welfare system provides their
disabled citizens with a brand new car every three years? (ref DLA higher mobility component)

[mattybhoy]

I agree with not listening to this government mate - unfortunatley I can see many more protests and riots (like todays) in the next few years.

I can see what your saying in that you would like Britain to follow the Australian model as it were - where the only way you get your card is if your skills are in short supply. I take it on board, but as Europe is so open now (and it looks like nations will become even closer) it aint going to happen.

As you probably know I'm not against imigration here or going the other way, but if you do get leave to remain or permenant residency I'm not against the idea of proving your worth to society, in terms of putting something back in and not just collecting benefits.

Re the DVLA scheme I don't know if another country has it. Though I do think it's a good idea if it operates correctly - as a way of empowering the disabled. I don't think it's a free car btw, don't they have to pay for it through there benefits? I bet the DVLA scheme and the car scrappage scheme has kept many a car dealership in business in the last few years.

[opsmonkey]

It's pretty simple.. neuter those earning under minimum wage.. scum breed scum, as seen on a daily basis on Jeremy Kyle..

On a more serious note, in the good old days your working class lad would do whatever job he could find to get bread on the table, nowadays he's more likely to say.. "Fcuk that la.. I'm not doing that job.. get more from me giro lad"

There are tons of jobs in this country but the only people prepared to do them are immigrants... Your everyday chav wouldn't be seen doing the bins or toilets.. not street enough

[bobwill]

4 years ago there was thousands of jobs in UK and over one million on the dole but they would not take the jobs because most of the jobs where manual hard work like farm ,construction or factory, our british work shy would not do these jobs So up to 10 million workers came from abroad to fill these jobs no one knows except number. And foreign workers are claiming tax credits family allowance etc which they are entitled to .
Bair and Brown and there fellow idiots should have bought this policy in then which would have stopped the mass immigration which took place.
anybody who has been made redundant in last 2 years I feel sorry for but the idle work shy who have been unemployed for more than 3years I dont feel sorry at all for,they should have got a job when there was plenty so dont moan about losing your benefits you should have lost them years ago.