I have regularly seen posters on here posting in threads where families are getting excessive levels of HB and complaining about it. But when it is getting cut (as now) the same people are commplaining again - or is it just that the other threads about excessive levels of HB are just copy and pasted from the Daily Mail...
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I think one of the reasons we have so many work shy people is the minimum wage, it's ridiculously low in this country,
instead of subsidising the low paying private sector with tax credits, raise the minimum wage by a ?1p/h and scrap tax credits,
this would encourage people to look for work and it would save the treasury money,
this coalition government are good at using the stick, but I don't see many carrots!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleHComment
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No ones placing the blame solely on the work-shy lazy bastards, absolutely not. There clearly are a number problems, however you have to admit that work-shy leeching scum are definitely one of them.
So why not tackle it? in my opinion people go wrong by seeing too many problems and behaving like a dog trying to chase two rabbits.
As for the resurrection of alms, poor and workhouses, I don't see that as an entirely negative thing. People have had it too easy for far too long, a regression back to a draconian system might be just the kick up the arse the nation needs, then it would clearly illustrate why the welfare system was established in the first place, and why its to be cherished instead of abused.
A trip back to the dark ages in this case would do current society as a whole a world of good.
Strangely enough everyone I personally know who signs on and refuses to get a job also refused to vote, gave me odd looks when I suggested it might be in their interest to get off their arses for just five minuites to cast a ballot.
So yeah, to hell with them, you reap what you sow, let the Dickensian nightmare commence, after a few weeks in a workhouse maybe attitudes towards work will change.
Will there be collateral damage? absolutely, you cant carpet bomb an entire nation without hitting a few schools. Such is life, the nation has brought this all on itself, i say let the Tories do their absolute worst. Give the nation something to mull over as the realisation kicks in that not only have we been monumentally fu@!ed but that it was entirely self inflicted, the nation bent over and dutifully lubed itself by allowing them in. It might spark a fire under peoples arses and force them to grow a backbone and some self respect.
Maybe turn off "I'm talent, get me out of xfactor" off for five minutes and wonder just what the hell happened to a nation too transfixed on low grade celebrities to pay attention to the real big brother.
We've been molly coddling people for years and this is exactly where we've wound up, i'm all for a page turn just to see what happens next.He who laughs last thinks slowest.Comment
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IT doesnt matter which government is at fault its still the same benefit hugging job shy men and women we all see! and there is fcuk all wrong with them !!! Apart from being lazy! just me and the other taxpayers paying for them!IM SORRY but i will never have any sympathy for maggie thatcher .... the bitch
I WOULD STILL LIKE TO SAY MY HEART AND RESPECT GOES OUT ALL BRITISH AND ALL ARMY TROOPS FIGHTING THE TERROR WHICH STILL BREEDS IN THE WORLD!! YOU HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL HAVE MY UTMOST RESPECT !
YNWA!!!
JUSTICE FOR THE '96"
"People say football is a matter of life and death. I'm disappointed by that approach, I believe it is much more important than that - Bill Shankly" -
YNWAComment
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Here is a piece by John Pilger from JohnPilger.com - the films and journalism of John Pilger concerning this.Hope it helps
The party game is over. Stand and fight
4 November 2010
"Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth, like dew
Which in sleep had fall'n on you:
Ye are many - they are few."
These days, the stirring lines of Percy Shelley's "Mask of Anarchy" may seem unattainable. I don't think so. Shelley was both a Romantic and political truth-teller. His words resonate now because only one political course is left to those who are disenfranchised and whose ruin is announced on a government spreadsheet.
Born of the "never again" spirit of 1945, social democracy has surrendered to an extreme political cult of money worship. This reached its apogee when ?1trn of public money was handed unconditionally to corrupt banks by a Labour government whose leader, Gordon Brown, had previously described "financiers" as the nation's "great example" and his personal "inspiration".
This is not to say parliamentary politics is meaningless. It has one meaning now: the replacement of democracy with a business plan for every human activity, every dream, every decency, every hope, every child born.
The old myths of British rectitude, imperial in origin, provided false comfort while the Blair gang built the foundation of the present "coalition". This is led by a former PR man for an asset stripper and by a bagman who will inherit his knighthood and the tax-shielded fortune of his father, the 17th Baronet of Ballintaylor. David Cameron and George Osborne are essentially fossilised spivs who, in colonial times, would have been sent by their daddies to claim foreign terrain and plunder.
Today, they are claiming 21st-century Britain and imposing their vicious, antique ideology, albeit served as economic snake oil. Their designs have nothing to do with a "deficit crisis". A deficit of 10 per cent is not remotely a crisis. When Britain was officially bankrupt at the end of the Second World War, the government built its greatest public institutions, such as the National Health Service and the arts edifices of London's South Bank.
There is no economic rationale for the assault described cravenly by the BBC as a "public spending review". The debt is exclusively the responsibility of those who incurred it, the super-rich and the gamblers. However, that's beside the point. What is happening in Britain is the seizure of an opportunity to destroy the tenuous humanity of the modern state. It is a coup, a "shock doctrine" as applied to Pinochet's Chile and Yeltsin's Russia.
In Britain, there is no need for tanks in the streets. In its managerial indifference to the freedoms it is said to hold dear, bourgeois Britain has allowed parliament to create a surveillance state with 3,000 new criminal offences and laws: more than for the whole of the previous century. Powers of arrest and detention have never been greater. The police have the impunity to kill; and asylum-seekers can be "restrained" to death on commercial flights.
Athol Fugard is right. With Harold Pinter gone, no acclaimed writer or artist dare depart from their well-remunerated vanity. With so much in need of saying, they have nothing to say. Liberalism, the vainest ideology, has hauled up its ladder. The chief opportunist, Nick Clegg, gave no electoral hint of his odious faction's compliance with the dismantling of much of British postwar society. The theft of ?83bn in jobs and services matches almost exactly the amount of tax legally avoided by piratical corporations. Without fanfare, the super-rich have been assured they can dodge up to ?40bn in tax payments in the secrecy of Swiss banks. The day this was sewn up, Osborne attacked those who "cheat" the welfare system. He omitted the real amount lost, a minuscule ?0.5bn, and that ?10.5bn in benefit payments was not claimed at all. Labour is his silent partner.The propaganda arm in the press and broadcasting dutifully presents this as unfortunate but necessary. Mark how the firefighters' action is "covered". On Channel 4 News, following an item that portrayed modest, courageous people as basically reckless, Jon Snow demanded that the leaders of the London Fire Authority and the Fire Brigades Union go straight from the studio and "mediate" now, this minute. "I'll get the taxis!" he declared. Forget the thousands of jobs that are to be eliminated from the fire service and the public danger beyond Bonfire Night; knock their jolly heads together. "Good stuff!" said the presenter.
Ken Loach's 1983 documentary series Questions of Leadership opens with a sequence of earnest young trade unionists on platforms, exhorting the masses. They are then shown older, florid, self-satisfied and finally adorned in the ermine of the House of Lords. Once, at a Durham Miners' Gala, I asked Tony Woodley, now joint general secretary of Unite, "Isn't the problem the clockwork collaboration of the union leadership?" He almost agreed, implying that the rise of bloods like himself would change that. The British Airways cabin crew strike, over which Woodley presides, is said to have made gains. Has it? And why haven't the unions risen against totalitarian laws that place free trade unionism in a vice?
The BA workers, the firefighters, the council workers, the post office workers, the NHS workers, the London Underground staff, the teachers, the lecturers, the students can more than match the French if they are resolute and imaginative, forging, with the wider social justice movement, potentially the greatest popular resistance ever. Look at the web; listen to the public's support at fire stations. There is no other way now. Direct action. Civil disobedience. Unerring. Read Shelley and do it.
Last edited by kin; 26 November, 2010, 14:00.Comment
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Kin.Absolutely.Comment
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not surprised at all at this from John Pilger he is ultra left wing and he and a lot of the loony left are so stupid can not see that the welfare state and large civil service can not be paid for by just a few who work in the private sector. No government department make a profit except one which I can think of so even that all workers in government pay to much tax its only the private sector that pays for the goverment.With over 50% of workers being paid by the state the rest have to carry the state workers
When only 31% of workers in china a Communist state works for the state you know something is wrong .All the leftes on here who keep crying for labour to come back just remember every time labour gets in the country is bankrupt Harold Wilson called in the IMF Jim Callaghan left us broke and Gordon Brown hit the jackpot and left a debt that my great grandchildern will have to pay offComment
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Bobwill,
are you confusing Communism with people who have a social conscience (not all who have a social conscience are Socialists).I would assume you pay for all your health care privately as you seem to have a very fixed opinion on Public Sector staff which includes these services.I have worked in the NHS for over 30yrs providing emergency services 24hrs a day 365 days a year to people who need Cardiac surgery along with a dedicated team of staff-I'm not seeking gratification for this but perhaps a little more consideration and thought when posting your views;I'm sure you would be grateful if you or a member of your family were ever in need that these mostly anonymous and unassuming people along with the other support services needed to assist us are available.I can also tell you that these services are not available 24hrs a day in the Private sector as we often have to take patients from our local Private hospital.I also pay my taxes,national insurance and any other taxes just like you and no we don't earn vast amounts of money for doing this-the Private sector pay the same (sometimes more) for doing the same job.There is room for both private enterprise and public services in our society,some run better in private hands and vice-versa.
Best wishes,
Craig J.Comment
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With due Respect to u,this article by John Pilger is apolitical.It castigated & blemished all the major 3 parties,From Tony Blair/Gordon Brown's Labour Party,David Cameron's Tories & Nick Clegg's Lib Dems.In actual fact this piece is blaming all of the Ruling Class because they have allowed themselves to be usurped by the BANKSTERS,WHO CAUSED THIS RECESSION IN THE FIRST PLACE.No need to call names here like John Pilger is a loony left.This is just the TRUTH.THEREFORE YOU HAVE GOT ZERO POINT THERE MATELast edited by kin; 26 November, 2010, 23:07.Comment
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@kin
I really do appreciate your post mate, but please don't use capital letters.. In forums that is regarded as shouting at us.... If you wish to highlight or stress a particular point... there is lots of formatting techniques available to you... like bold lettering, coloured lettering etc.
In saying that.... love the points your making.., but we always have to appreciate we all have different political views... and its great that we can express this in a friendly way.
Go easy...........................
Cheers.Comment
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Here is a piece by John Pilger from JohnPilger.com - the films and journalism of John Pilger concerning this.Hope it helps
The party game is over. Stand and fight
4 November 2010
"Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth, like dew
Which in sleep had fall'n on you:
Ye are many - they are few."
These days, the stirring lines of Percy Shelley's "Mask of Anarchy" may seem unattainable. I don't think so. Shelley was both a Romantic and political truth-teller. His words resonate now because only one political course is left to those who are disenfranchised and whose ruin is announced on a government spreadsheet.
Born of the "never again" spirit of 1945, social democracy has surrendered to an extreme political cult of money worship. This reached its apogee when ?1trn of public money was handed unconditionally to corrupt banks by a Labour government whose leader, Gordon Brown, had previously described "financiers" as the nation's "great example" and his personal "inspiration".
This is not to say parliamentary politics is meaningless. It has one meaning now: the replacement of democracy with a business plan for every human activity, every dream, every decency, every hope, every child born.
The old myths of British rectitude, imperial in origin, provided false comfort while the Blair gang built the foundation of the present "coalition". This is led by a former PR man for an asset stripper and by a bagman who will inherit his knighthood and the tax-shielded fortune of his father, the 17th Baronet of Ballintaylor. David Cameron and George Osborne are essentially fossilised spivs who, in colonial times, would have been sent by their daddies to claim foreign terrain and plunder.
Today, they are claiming 21st-century Britain and imposing their vicious, antique ideology, albeit served as economic snake oil. Their designs have nothing to do with a "deficit crisis". A deficit of 10 per cent is not remotely a crisis. When Britain was officially bankrupt at the end of the Second World War, the government built its greatest public institutions, such as the National Health Service and the arts edifices of London's South Bank.
There is no economic rationale for the assault described cravenly by the BBC as a "public spending review". The debt is exclusively the responsibility of those who incurred it, the super-rich and the gamblers. However, that's beside the point. What is happening in Britain is the seizure of an opportunity to destroy the tenuous humanity of the modern state. It is a coup, a "shock doctrine" as applied to Pinochet's Chile and Yeltsin's Russia.
In Britain, there is no need for tanks in the streets. In its managerial indifference to the freedoms it is said to hold dear, bourgeois Britain has allowed parliament to create a surveillance state with 3,000 new criminal offences and laws: more than for the whole of the previous century. Powers of arrest and detention have never been greater. The police have the impunity to kill; and asylum-seekers can be "restrained" to death on commercial flights.
Athol Fugard is right. With Harold Pinter gone, no acclaimed writer or artist dare depart from their well-remunerated vanity. With so much in need of saying, they have nothing to say. Liberalism, the vainest ideology, has hauled up its ladder. The chief opportunist, Nick Clegg, gave no electoral hint of his odious faction's compliance with the dismantling of much of British postwar society. The theft of ?83bn in jobs and services matches almost exactly the amount of tax legally avoided by piratical corporations. Without fanfare, the super-rich have been assured they can dodge up to ?40bn in tax payments in the secrecy of Swiss banks. The day this was sewn up, Osborne attacked those who "cheat" the welfare system. He omitted the real amount lost, a minuscule ?0.5bn, and that ?10.5bn in benefit payments was not claimed at all. Labour is his silent partner.The propaganda arm in the press and broadcasting dutifully presents this as unfortunate but necessary. Mark how the firefighters' action is "covered". On Channel 4 News, following an item that portrayed modest, courageous people as basically reckless, Jon Snow demanded that the leaders of the London Fire Authority and the Fire Brigades Union go straight from the studio and "mediate" now, this minute. "I'll get the taxis!" he declared. Forget the thousands of jobs that are to be eliminated from the fire service and the public danger beyond Bonfire Night; knock their jolly heads together. "Good stuff!" said the presenter.
Ken Loach's 1983 documentary series Questions of Leadership opens with a sequence of earnest young trade unionists on platforms, exhorting the masses. They are then shown older, florid, self-satisfied and finally adorned in the ermine of the House of Lords. Once, at a Durham Miners' Gala, I asked Tony Woodley, now joint general secretary of Unite, "Isn't the problem the clockwork collaboration of the union leadership?" He almost agreed, implying that the rise of bloods like himself would change that. The British Airways cabin crew strike, over which Woodley presides, is said to have made gains. Has it? And why haven't the unions risen against totalitarian laws that place free trade unionism in a vice?
The BA workers, the firefighters, the council workers, the post office workers, the NHS workers, the London Underground staff, the teachers, the lecturers, the students can more than match the French if they are resolute and imaginative, forging, with the wider social justice movement, potentially the greatest popular resistance ever. Look at the web; listen to the public's support at fire stations. There is no other way now. Direct action. Civil disobedience. Unerring. Read Shelley and do it.Comment
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The protestant work ethic
You are all falling into the same trap. The stigmatization of a section of society based on ideas generated to benefit those in charge. Whether this be state, church or industrialists.
"The Protestant Work Ethic.
The set of values associated by Weber with the rise of modern capitalism and industrial society. The ethic is that we fulfil our duty to God by diligence, hard work, and restrained expenditure, with the resulting accumulation of goods acting as a reassuring sign (although not a cause, since the outcome is predestined) of eventual salvation. This combination of attitudes has an elective affinity with the discipline required for industrial production."
"Work" as a concept is a human invention as is money itself. A society could easily function without money at all as in early societies that used barter. Money itself is just another form of control over a population. You try using barter for any length of time and the Taxman will be after you as happened with the Lets system of bartering. Even though no money changed hands. To lose the control of trade and the flow of money means losing control of the population.
Pleasant dreams.It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop - Confucious
You will move very slowly when facing a brick wall - Alexics
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Ford Visteon V series CODE OFF - SORTED
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Ford Visteon V series calculator - IN PROGRESS
VW Blaupunkt calculator - IN PROGRESSComment
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[QUOTE=alexics;862825]You are all falling into the same trap. The stigmatization of a section of society based on ideas generated to benefit those in charge. Whether this be state, church or industrialists.
"The Protestant Work Ethic.
The set of values associated by Weber with the rise of modern capitalism and industrial society. The ethic is that we fulfil our duty to God by diligence, hard work, and restrained expenditure, with the resulting accumulation of goods acting as a reassuring sign (although not a cause, since the outcome is predestined) of eventual salvation. This combination of attitudes has an elective affinity with the discipline required for industrial production."
"Work" as a concept is a human invention as is money itself. A society could easily function without money at all as in early societies that used barter. Money itself is just another form of control over a population. You try using barter for any length of time and the Taxman will be after you as happened with the Lets system of bartering. Even though no money changed hands. To lose the control of trade and the flow of money means losing control of the population.
Pleasant dreams.[/QUOTE]
Mate,you must try & read that article article again.It cleary says the BANKS,using our ruling elite are using & abusing us.I mean the Recession was caused by Banks,Why punish the workers & jobless for that???Its the Banksters who must be pushined for it.Comment
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In reply I looked at what I wrote again and can not see where I said anything about front line services like you do jobs which you do and many more a very important to the country .There is over 7 million workers in the civil service and only 2 million are in essential front line services like your self 'Did you know they are nearly as many work for MOD as there are soldiers airmen and sailer's
No I do not go private as for 1 I can not afford it 2 I think the nation heath service is good
You must think I earn a fortune sorry to disappoint you but I am a self employed manual worker and last year I earnt just over 10 thousand so dont think that make me super rich.
I hate debt and like to save for rainy day and thought that I would take out a private pension so not to be a liability on the state what happen gorden brown has stolen it, it is now worth a quarter of what it would have been. I bought up 3 children and instead of going for a government handout except for child allowance I worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week to make sure they had a good life . so please do not think I am one of the privileged.
I think that even if the banks had not gone tits up this country would still be in trouble as the government was spending more than it was getting in, you can only tax so much and people start to ask where is it all going and see it wasted and keeping lazy people in a better life style than them selfs will get fed up and leave the country .
you think that I am not careing you are wrong I will help anybody who are in trouble or needy but I do not think that people who will not work or single mothers who keep having children for more handouts should be top of the list for help.
I would also add I now know I was an idiot but I voted for tony bair in 97Comment
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