conspiracy the moon

[johnboy1974]

i have been watching a lot of stuff recently on youtube regarding the moon landings. Type in moon landings hoax debunked and then moon landings debunked. Theres evidence that it was a hoax and that it did actually happen. I was never too sure myself as i wasnt born when it happened but all i will say is that for me this is too big a conspiracy with too many people involved, someone somewhere would have blabbed by now.

[racin-snake]

i have been watching a lot of stuff recently on youtube regarding the moon landings. Type in moon landings hoax debunked and then moon landings debunked. Theres evidence that it was a hoax and that it did actually happen. I was never too sure myself as i wasnt born when it happened but all i will say is that for me this is too big a conspiracy with too many people involved, someone somewhere would have blabbed by now.

did you watch Neil Armstrong's message in the film i posted ?
taken the only way possible (which is very cryptic)what do you think of his statements ?
and yes there is a big question as to whether the whole thing could be kept secret
but if you then look at the Manhattan project : then you will see that big secrets can be kept for large periods and still are today
so in my opinion some knew some didn't
the ones who suspect are like us no proof but absence of solid substantial proof doesn't mean there is none it just isn't outed yet
like for instance why would the fake the earth shots and say they were half way to he moon
if in fact on the date on the slate they were only in a high earth orbit ?
if they did go then they wouldn't have to fake anything it would be black and white no grey areas to challenge then
like most, it is thought due to the fact it was a long time ago it doesn't matter one way or the other
in my opinion it matters great deal lies are lies
an should be outed .....

"fool us once shame on them" .."fool us twice shame on us "

[johnboy1974]

racin armstrong has been a bit of a wierdo so nothing he says is concrete in my eyes. isnt there a reflector on the moon which was placed there by appollo which is used to determine earth moon distance apart. Also racin where do you stand on the other appollo missions do you think it was just 11 that was faked and they did eventually go there.

[racin-snake]

to be honest ime just looking at this as objective as possible
but with very little rebuttal or informed debate from nasa's end its pretty much one sided

but strong evidence supports many of the disbelievers IMHO

as for Armstrong ? weirdo ?
this guy was a test pilot also a genuine player in the whole nasa agenda so a clever well informed and above all professional
but after the moon landings his attitude changed giving no interviews and no comments s to what he did and how it was for him
he hasn't even gained financially as most would from a book ect ?
seems odd to me that if he'd been to the moon and did these amazing adventures the first of its kind
ground breaking even if it was to be done today
makes me slightly leaning to the conclusion he's embarrassed it actually didn't happen
but far from it for me to say my veiw point
have a good look at the stuff yourself satisfy yourself it is what you think that matters
but by al means have a dig around
its history and if its correct then so be it
but not to challenge the greyer areas is just wrong
i hope you enjoy the journey if you decide to look as it might lead you many places you'd never thought before were relevant to you

but i urge you to come to your own conclusion
take care mate if you do look try to be objective
an as for the reflectors i think Cronus covered this on a previous post but again
your own view point versus the evidence nowt else matters

[nara]

i have been watching a lot of stuff recently on youtube regarding the moon landings. Type in moon landings hoax debunked and then moon landings debunked. Theres evidence that it was a hoax and that it did actually happen. I was never too sure myself as i wasnt born when it happened but all i will say is that for me this is too big a conspiracy with too many people involved, someone somewhere would have blabbed by now.

If you're interested in further reading johnboy Clavius Moon Base - debunking the moon hoax is an excellent site as is The Moon Hoax Debate and Michael Shermer?s brilliant (and VERY LONG !) "Moon Hoax"-debunk

If you've been reading the thread you'll have seen several references to the moon landing deniers claim that humans couldn't have passed through the Van Allen Belt.

Who better to counter this than Dr James Van Allen himself who said:

"The recent Fox TV show, which I saw, is an ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense. The claim that radiation exposure during the Apollo missions would have been fatal to the astronauts is only one example of such nonsense."

As for your excellent point "someone would have blabbed by now"

In the words of astronaut Gordon Liddy:

"Three people can keep a secret as long as two of them are dead. To think that thousands of people would keep their mouths shut is too ridiculous to consider."

[z786]

do we REALLY have to go into the debate of "secret" societies with maybe a million members?

[mandoo]

Personally i think we did go to the moon but were reluctant to return as something/one was already there as quoted on a document that refers to the nasa moon bombing in search of evidence for the presence of water. Have you seen the so called leaked video clips that show structures on the moon that were kept secret from us due to our fear of extra terrestrial existance? Im curious to know how many believe it to be this way?

[nara]

do we REALLY have to go into the debate of "secret" societies with maybe a million members?

I'm not quite sure where your coming from there.

Are you saying that everyone in the NASA moon landing program (and all the others around the world who were involved in the moon landing telemetry) was a member of a secret society, or have I misinterpreted your post?

[thered]

I'm not quite sure where your coming from there.

Are you saying that everyone in the NASA moon landing program (and all the others around the world who were involved in the moon landing telemetry) was a member of a secret society, or have I misinterpreted your post?

im not sure how many people would need to know the truth apart from the astronaughts and a couple of other top chiefs

i am sure they were very handsomely rewarded too for their silence if untrue


i believe they went up and they span around in space a bit the landing thing i do not believe

too many lttle things wrong not enough footage released and now 40 years on we havent been back

reflectors as evidence any buggy could have done it doesnt have to be manned

stones with letters on them,light not correct lunar module not making a huge crater and button moon type tv footage make it for me a bit unbelievable

there is a lot to view and watch and many myths have been supposedly debunked a lot not very well

us mere mortals will never know one way or another 100% there could be as little as 5-10 people who know exactly what happened

[johnboy1974]

well the way i see it is like this- they couldnt keep it secret about monica whatshername sucking off bill clinton but apparenly thousands of nasa employees and god knows how many civillians all know mankinds biggest secret and will never blab.

[johnboy1974]

Personally i think we did go to the moon but were reluctant to return as something/one was already there as quoted on a document that refers to the nasa moon bombing in search of evidence for the presence of water. Have you seen the so called leaked video clips that show structures on the moon that were kept secret from us due to our fear of extra terrestrial existance? Im curious to know how many believe it to be this way?

mandoo could you post some links to these pictures i saw some stuff on youtube and it was far from convincing.

[Egren71]

Ok i have just spent the last day or so reading through this post and watching as much of the video clips as i can stand and i thought i would add my tuppence to the post.
Just 3 points first.
Earlier in the post cantona7 said but does not the moon rotate like the earth so at times the dark side of the moon would be our side of the moon?
The answer is no the moon does not rotate relative to us. It is tide locked we always see one face, it does wobble a little so to be precise we see nearer to 51 percent of the moon but we never see the other side unless a probe swings past that side.
Also thered said the yanks just sent up people but the russians sent up testers
This is also incorrect see Animals in space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - the yanks sent up animals too
And lastly thirty3 quotes points suggesting the moon is not earths natural satellite.
He's right, depending on what exactly he means, the moon is not a natural satellite. It was not, according to current theory created by accreting from the suns original dust disk. It was created when two planetary sized bodies in orbit around the sun collided. This happened very early in the solar systems history when the planets were still forming. The resulting collision created two new planetary sized bodies. 1. The Earth and 2. The moon. This is not as far as we know the way that moons are normally created.

Two points that keep coming up that seem to prove nothing either way are
1. The reflectors as these could have been put there by man or could have been put their by robots.
2. Why haven't we gone back? There are many possible reasons why we haven't gone back. It could be as the conspiracy theorists say that we can't or it could be as the believers say that it is too expensive and their is no reason to. Or it could be another reason.

I think one answer we should accept and stop keep arguing over is the Van Allen belt if the person who discovered the thing says he sees no problem with the Astronaut's passing through it then i think we should believe him. After all he was smart enough to look for it in the first place. And lets be honest the governments of old didn't seem too concerned for their citizens welfare as can be seen from their lets go watch the nuclear bomb tests. As long as the Astronaut's got back ok for the TV cameras and interviews.

Raven said its all down to oil and power and at least as far as power is concerned i think that is true and when we go back to the moon for the fuel that appears to be there it will put an end to this fake theory. There appears to a fuel on the moon in great quantities that will be very useful in powering fusion nuclear reactors

In my opinion a very weak argument that comes up is the "if you double the playback speed of the Astronaut's on the moons surface" argument. The moons gravity is 1/6th of the Earths so for the argument to make sense you should increase the playback speed 6 times. This would look silly. It doesn't much prove anything as there would always be an amount you could speed up playback by to make it look like Earth Gravity.

I am not going to argue all the points as firemouth appears to have done a good job of most of them with some very sensible answers.

A last few things i have to say are i agree with nara although this in not precisely what he said. There is an arrogance with recent generations that seem to think that they are the only generation smart enough to do something very difficult. People in this thread keep saying if we have done it before then why can't we do it now it must be because we didn't do it the first time. This is a flawed argument as what we are trying to do this time is go there cheaper, safely and for longer periods. I am sure that NASA could go back and copy the Apollo rockets and build some more but we have moved on, a lot in some areas, so why not take a little time and go back but do it better this time. People keep saying that we can't build the equipment to get us there, that we have lost the plans. So what we could copy the old equipment and re-invent the bits we need to. Lets face it we probably couldn't build a steam train, say the flying scotsman, without copying the original a bit. In general we could probably build a steam train but but not a leading edge one. But no one argues that because we can't do it now then it must mean we have never built one.

I think that the only reason this argument exists is because it is easier to put down the achievements of previous generations than it is to go out and do something monumental yourself. Look at both China under Mao and Cambodia under the Khmer rouge, both governments decided it would be easier to destroy their historical monuments that showed how great the previous generations had been, than it would be to great again nowadays. A nice why bother attitude, which is quite common nowadays. And where governments go citizens inevitably follow. What we should be doing is deciding to be great again, but unfortunately to many people can't be bothered to get up out of the chair in front of their TV, even worse they don't want to leave the TV as it does their thinking for them.

I am not saying the doubters don't think for them self i know that many do but i believe that far more don't.

I think i have started rambling so i will stop there.

[racin-snake]

[quote]I think one answer we should accept and stop keep arguing over is the Van Allen belt if the person who discovered the thing says he sees no problem with the Astronaut's passing through it then i think we should believe him. After all he was smart enough to look for it in the first place. And lets be honest the governments of old didn't seem too concerned for their citizens welfare as can be seen from their lets go watch the nuclear bomb tests. As long as the Astronaut's got back ok for the TV cameras and interviews. [quote]

mmmmm
not fully in agreance here as van allen himself found this anomaly by accident so if he's smart enough to have an accident then fine ..follow it up is the smart bit
and as of yet nothing goes into a high enough orbit to go through these two belts so your theory there is slightly tainted
tell you what next moonshot they do you fly through the van allen belts see how you go ?

secondly no one is ignorant enough to debate the history in so far as most if not all history has been spun in the powers that be 's favour ..this is a proven fact !

my own thoughts are that if this was the most monumental task in our last century i think that they would have crossed the t's and dotted the i's
as to let no contention arise ?
especially the fact that the big bad USSR was watching
another contentious part that if you look the USSR might not have had the technology to follow the Apollo flight all the way to its destination
and the telemetry as proven was and if you look ... to be shown prior to the mission by robotic unmanned craft
which did land on the moon !
if they did this then why is so much coming to the fore that in fact they covered a lot up in smoke and mirrors ?

and also the fact that inhibitive costs ect are the real reason for the apolo space program to be scrapped
only to be replaced by the space shuttle program that if you look goes nowhere near the two radiation belts ?

your argument is based on the findings of a small bunch of government scientists
and as seen before the mainstream media ...so
in essence changes very little to the argument
as its unproven untested especially the 1/6 gravity spiel
amazing that it can be replicated here in normal earth gravity with just simple devices such as pulleys and wires ?

contentions though it may sound i believe what i can prove
the day professor van allen goes through the belts himself il take his word
till then back up the facts
as if you also look even one us president said said
"there will be no whitewash in the white-house "
which ended up proven to be a load of shite
so words over proven facts imho matter
ime quite happy to accept a proven theory but here say and non substantiated findings from a professor that hasn't even seen the effects of radiation on human bodies can come away with some of this
as the scientists cannot even agree on the more recent nuclear disaster radiation affects even now they are in deadlock over a reactor in japan's actual damaging output
so back in the 60s there was little chance this stands as proven 100% fact
just a theory as stated

modern day craft and especially manned craft avoid the belts as much as possible due to the unknown or unpredicted effects ....fact !

as for the ramble about historic monuments ripped down by the Khmer rouge
twaddle
a policy implemented by the communist state in these places
~~~~all to do with human achievement more to do with killing off a belief system and more so the patriotism to a country as opposed to loyalty to a party end off

think more reading is needed my friend
you have a good analysis of much but misguided about the agendas involved


...-racin

[wetdog]

why not just take a picture or two of all the gear left on the moon?

surely we have the technology, simples.

mick.

[racin-snake]

oh they have done that mate
and have you seen em

http://www.space.com/6997-photos-rev...ding-site.html


here you go enjoy

funny how nasa got these pics yet the Japanese selene probe didn't find anything more yet got closer ?