Motor alignment

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi. I have installed lots of TM2600 motors and the way they works is as follows:
a) The motor has a dial like a timer. It has 0 in the middle and 1 to 70 on either side of the 0. The figures go up in steps of 10 ie 10 20 30 etc. These figures are used by USALS to locate the satellites at their given positions. For example when you tell USALS to go to 30 west it will move the dial and stop when it reaches 30 on the dial.The west satellites are to the left of the 0 ie anti clockwise and the east satellites are to the right of the 0 ie clockwise. When you are going east the dish will move to the left and when you are going west the dish will move to the right.
b) USALS uses your postcode figures to know which way to move your dish, for London it is 00.1W and 51.5N .
c) Also remember that USALS will only go to a satellite position as indicated in your menu. So make sure that all satellites you wish to pick up have the correct positions set.
d) A common problem for most people is that when they search for a satellite they dont have the correct TP ( or frequency). Always make sure you have a valid TP or channel for any satellite otherwise you will never find it.
e) It does not matter which satellite you look for first, the important thing is to find a satellite and then you can work out from there where you are. I always find that the satellites at 13 east, 19.2 east and 28.2 east are best to start with for the UK because they are so powerful and easier to locate and they are next door to each other. In reality all satellites are next door to each other
f) The way to find a satellite is simple ie do what i do. Make sure all cables are connected correctly and you have a green light on the motor. Using USALS set the motor to 0 by selecting GO TO REFERENCE in your motor menu. This will centralize the motor ie at point 0. If you have the dish already mounted on the motor tail make sure it is facing straight ahead and roughly central on the tail.Make sure dish is not pointing up or down but straight ahead. This way you will have motor and dish centralized at 0. Using USALS send the dish to a satellite ,in my case 28.2 . You can do this in two ways either from your SAT button on remote or using the GO TO option in motor menu. The dish should now move to the left heading for 28.2 east. When it reaches 28.2 the motor and dish will stop. Now comes the fun. Set the motor setting from USALS to OFF ( this will stop the motor from accidently moving when you exit the menus). Now select channel BBC 1 LONDON or TP 10.773H s/r 22000 Now loosen the dish a little to allow you to move it left or right. Move the dish slowly a bit at a time left and right until you get either a picture from BBC1 or the signal in your TP menu. When you get a perfect picture or strong signal then tighten the dish up. We now have our first satellite under USALS and can look for others. Set motor setting back to USALS and send it to another satellite ie 5 west. Allow dish to move to 5 west and when it stops fine tune the dish slightly until you get a picture or TP.When you get 5 west perfect then send dish back to 28.2 to see if signal is still ok. Remember you may need to fine tune the dish several times until you find the right setting for the arc. Take time and patience and you will get there . Please let us know if this has helped you a little or if you have any queries. Regards.

[ramjet]

the above would only be correct for london or anyone on the greenwich meridian , it would not be correct for say dublin or cork or stockholm for instance

hispasat is at 30 west and dublin is at 6.2w so hispasat is actually 30-6.2 west of dublin which is 23.8 degrees , so as true south is always set to the zero on the dial it would move 23.8 degrees west of zero to get to hispasat , not stop when it gets to 30 which is what you said above

usals uses your longitude and latitude , not your postcode , so it actually uses your gps position as shown on your satnav when you are at home

and when you switch to diseqc from usals the motor should not move at all , and you store that position into your motor which stores it according to your particular location, once all satellites have been stored you can use diseqc just as easily as usals

the point of using usals is to simplify the installation by setting your gps location into your receiver, sending the motor to a known satellite and then finding it by moving your motor and dish having already set the dish motor latitude and locking it

I would have thought an installer would have know the above details and its not as simple as you stated when you said the motor is sent to 30 on the dial for hispasat, it certainly doesnt on my new dark motor or on my old motek and stab motors , but it would have been correct if my longitude was 0.00w

a lot of installers in the uk make this mistake when they set a dish up because they set it on 0.00 instead of setting the 0 marker to true south

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi Ramjet. I must take issue with you on a number of points.
a) In this forum you keep telling people to use their postcode to find their latitude and longitude. Now you are saying it has nothing to do with the postcode.
b) On the TM2600 motors as far as i am aware when you send dish to 30 west the motor will stop at 30 west on the dial. Actually this is set in your USALS menu under SAT POSITION. If you change HISPASSAT to 25 west in SAT POSITION the motor will stop at 25 west. This is the reason why motors have a dial with numbers on so they know at what point to stop.
c) I have not said that my longitude is set at 00.0w but 00.1w so again you are incorrect.
d) I think you will find that true south refers to the way the dish is pointing - nothing to do with the motor. If you have a dish mounted on a wall looking at no signals having a motor is not going to get you any signals either. This is what installers mean when they tell you to mount your dish on a south facing wall.
e) It dont matter if you live in London, Dublin, Manchester etc the satellites will always be in the same positions. The ability to find the arc depends on the way you set up your dish angles,LNB skew etc. This is the reason why under USALS you need to find the first satellite correctly so that it will know which way to go for the other satellites.
Please take this comments as observations rather than criticism. Like i said i have never had any problems with the TM2600 motors and by the way i am not an installer but have learned from reading comments in various forums. One thing i have learned though is that everyone has a different way of doing things and think that they are always right.
Take care.

[pedro2000uk]

...
I would have thought an installer would have know the above details and its not as simple as you stated when you said the motor is sent to 30 on the dial for hispasat, it certainly doesnt on my new dark motor or on my old motek and stab motors , but it would have been correct if my longitude was 0.00w

a lot of installers in the uk make this mistake when they set a dish up because they set it on 0.00 instead of setting the 0 marker to true south

We've sorted a lot of poor motorised installs out with a collection of many of the same classic errors, I can't remember seeing that one but I'm sure you're right.

btw.. apart from the motor @ 0.0, the motor doesn't actually move to absolute satellite longitude markings on the motor dials even if the longitude was 0.0, the motor would move to roughly 33-34w on the motor dial for 30w in the UK- it will move less past the 30w marking the further away from the equator you are more the nearer to the equator.

That takes into account your latitude on the calculations plus that fact that the dish is installed on the surface of the Earth & the Earth is spherical, the only way the dial would match the positions of the satellites would be in the center of the Earth & aimed at 0.0, the dial is just a base reference .....

...so if you see that 30w is 3-4 degrees further including allowing for your longitude's offset... it's about right.

[ramjet]

Hi Ramjet. I must take issue with you on a number of points.
a) In this forum you keep telling people to use their postcode to find their latitude and longitude. Now you are saying it has nothing to do with the postcode.
b) On the TM2600 motors as far as i am aware when you send dish to 30 west the motor will stop at 30 west on the dial. Actually this is set in your USALS menu under SAT POSITION. If you change HISPASSAT to 25 west in SAT POSITION the motor will stop at 25 west. This is the reason why motors have a dial with numbers on so they know at what point to stop.
c) I have not said that my longitude is set at 00.0w but 00.1w so again you are incorrect.
d) I think you will find that true south refers to the way the dish is pointing - nothing to do with the motor. If you have a dish mounted on a wall looking at no signals having a motor is not going to get you any signals either. This is what installers mean when they tell you to mount your dish on a south facing wall.
e) It dont matter if you live in London, Dublin, Manchester etc the satellites will always be in the same positions. The ability to find the arc depends on the way you set up your dish angles,LNB skew etc. This is the reason why under USALS you need to find the first satellite correctly so that it will know which way to go for the other satellites.
Please take this comments as observations rather than criticism. Like i said i have never had any problems with the TM2600 motors and by the way i am not an installer but have learned from reading comments in various forums. One thing i have learned though is that everyone has a different way of doing things and think that they are always right.
Take care.

and I would have thought that you would have taken my points on board , clearly you havent

a) yes I do say people should use their postcode to find their gps position , but its the gps position that is crucial , not the postcode , and do not forget we are using the uk when we talk about postcode , many members live in other countries , so the point here is that the postcode allows you to find your longitude and latitude, and it is they that are important here, and none uk members would be better served by checking dishpointer or using a satnav or gps mobile phone instead

b) kak m8 , if you were in stockholm your zero pointer would point almost at astra at 19e and sky at astra 2 at 28 east would be 10 degrees east of you so the pointer would point at 10 east on the motor dial , and thor would point at about 18 west , with hispasat pointing at about 47 west , so your analogy is totally incorrect and not borne out by the facts, the pointer is not there to point at the sats but to show you how many degree you have moved from one reference to another reference

your analogy only works in or around the greenwich meridian , something you totally ignored in my previous answers

I suggest you try an install in liverpool or cork or stockholm instead of a cosy install in london or the south east , you might actually change your tune once you see it in action

c) I do not care what your longitude is , 0.1w , 0.1e , makes very little difference to me , I was using the absolute zero as being greenwich for the greenwich meridian , look it up if you dont know what that is

d) true south is where the motor is at zero , already told you that , and its nothing to do with the dish , the pointer on the motor mount points at zero which is due south of you , for cork its actually pointing at the satellite at 8 west and for stockholm its pointing at 18 east , so somebody in cork would point the dish and motor at 8 west with the motor pointer on zero on the motor itself , and it would point at 22 degrees on the pointer when its on the 30 west hispasat position

e) usals takes your gps position and moves the motor to an offset position relative to your gps position , so gives an 8 degree offset if you are in cork , and an 18 degree offset if you are in stockholm , and that is why the system works under usals , when I started I had to calculate this manually and mark the motor accordingly and then setup using diseqc , maybe you should try this in order to learn the job properly ?

f) Please take this comments as observations rather than criticism. Like i said i have never had any problems with the TM2600 motors and by the way i am not an installer but have learned from reading comments in various forums. One thing i have learned though is that everyone has a different way of doing things and think that they are always right.
Take care

so my point is learn what you are talking about and do not mislead people with poor information or completely kak information

as I stated , your information and experience seems to be based on installations around london , so do not try to teach others who are a few degrees away from london until you have learned the basic rules , its too easy to assume what happens in london is what happens elsewhere , it isnt

and obviously the satellites never move position and I never said they did , but the motor owners positions vary and that is what you should have taken into account

so lets say I was in liverpool , I would be at 3 west for my due south , I would set the motor to zero and point it at true south (not magnetic south) and the satellite we know as thor at 1 west is actually 2 east of me , so my motor would point at 2 east when I send it to thor , and would point at 27 west when I send it to hispasat , thereby destroying your theories

suggest you check this out carefully before posting again , as your maths do not add up, and your analogy is flawed

time to learn the correct details , as posted by krazylegs in the sticky threads where one member was from stockholm so check those details too

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f11/how-install-motorised-dish-42881/

the details posted by pedro are also correct , and show my analogy of your gps position being crucial when checking the motor details on the pointer on its mounting , so my points are based on the simpler principles , but my motor is not pointing at the 30 degree mark when it is on hispasat , and not at the 28 east mark when on astra 2 - and my zero marking is nearer 4 west than 1 west - FACT

its nice to see that at least one actual installer (pedro) understands these facts , but as he is in cheshire his installs have to take those details into account

regards

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi. Its nice to know that in London we have motors that actually do what you tell them to do. I find it hard to believe that you only have one installer that agrees with you. Take care.

[Manic01]

Hi. Its nice to know that in London we have motors that actually do what you tell them to do. I find it hard to believe that you only have one installer that agrees with you. Take care.

That makes me laugh hehe.

[ramjet]

Hi. Its nice to know that in London we have motors that actually do what you tell them to do. I find it hard to believe that you only have one installer that agrees with you. Take care.

still a load of kak m8 , and its one more than you had too

your post suggests that you havent got a clue how to align a motor unless you are in london where its the easiest it can ever be

if you do what I have done and actually test a usals receiver on a usals motor (spiderbox 9000 on a motek sg2100 motor) you get the following results for 30 west hispasat using usals

liverpool , 3 east , hispasat is on 30w on the motor indicator

castlegregory at 10e in western ireland , hispasat on 10 west

moscow on 37.6e shows hispasat at 67w (which is why they have 70 or 80 on a motor)

warsaw at 21e shows hispasat at 54 west

norwich at 1.3e shows hispasat at 35 west

stockholm at 10e shows hispasat at 43 west

so where you get this crazy idea that hispasat always shows 30w on a motor mount is beyond me

perhaps in future you will actually read my posts and understand the reasons behind what I say instead of assuming london is at the centre of the universe and it dances to your tune

in the meantime I stand by my posts so far and was educating philbeardmore until you stuck your oar in

as for the number of installers , some havent had a say yet , and others have hit the thanks button

post a poll if you think your ideas on this are correct , but in the meantime test your theories my hooking your box to a spare motor and look at the motor indicator as you change your longitude to different locations (like I did, you do not require an attached dish to test the theory)

and try reading the sticky thread which details the correct info (by a moderator here), or is he wrong too ?

the only reason you londoners have the correct details is due to the fact that 100 to 200 years ago the uk hosted a competition to sort out longitude and latitude using regulated clocks , and greenwich was selected as the basis of the reference position (GMT) , had it been moscow things would be vastly different

and this was for the sailing ships , not satellite , so its just a cooincidence that the rest of the world took their cue from greenwich , and was from where longitude and latitude came in the first place

maybe next time you will check your facts before posting ? I hope so

so Please take this comments as observations rather than criticism. Like i said i have never had any problems with the TM2600 motors and by the way i am not an installer but have learned from reading comments in various forums. One thing i have learned though is that everyone has a different way of doing things and think that they are always right.
Take care

I do not think I am right , I know I am right , a good point I think ?

[Philbeardmore]

Woahhh, thanks guys but I'm starting to feel a bit guilty here for starting something! :-)

The conflicting views has actually given me a better insight and understanding of the complexities around satellite tv.

On the info provided I've managed to load the channel list, and pick up BBC news on 28.2 Astra. I've got a good signal (around 80%) and quality is sitting around 95% but obviously the quality changes depending upon the channel on Astra.

Thing is when I try and view a channel on another sat the motor moves but I can't pick up any channels. I assume my alignment is out somewhere. Will have another look at it tomorrow as its dark outside now.

I've just realised that I need to apply the latest patch to the Spiderbox in order to allow the "gift" - this should affect my alignment will it. (I.e the receiver wont think my dish is in one position when it's actually in another)

Thanks again

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi. Hey dont feel guilty about people having different points of views this is what forums are for. If people want to give you a history lesson from 200 years ago which has nothing to do with installing a motor on a dish they are entitled to do that. All i know is that i am 100 percent happy with the way my motor was set up and working the way it should work. Good luck with your installation. Regards.

[Manic01]

@Nutsandbolts
Ramjet is correct mate, setting up the way you do is ok for london but not for elsewhere.

You stated this in TM section

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f75/help-sat-finder-256307/

27th March, 2012, 08:24 PM #11
Nutsandbolts
Senior Member
always be set as West and North ( for the northern hemisphere). The longitude should be West(W) and latitude should be North(N). For London it is 00.1W 51.5N. The W and N are used by the motor software to know which way is east and west for the satellites. Regards.

Replied to by DickB
Those that live in essex,suffolk,norfolk,kent etc are all east of the meridian so might disagree

[ramjet]

Woahhh, thanks guys but I'm starting to feel a bit guilty here for starting something! :-)

The conflicting views has actually given me a better insight and understanding of the complexities around satellite tv.

On the info provided I've managed to load the channel list, and pick up BBC news on 28.2 Astra. I've got a good signal (around 80%) and quality is sitting around 95% but obviously the quality changes depending upon the channel on Astra.

Thing is when I try and view a channel on another sat the motor moves but I can't pick up any channels. I assume my alignment is out somewhere. Will have another look at it tomorrow as its dark outside now.

I've just realised that I need to apply the latest patch to the Spiderbox in order to allow the "gift" - this should affect my alignment will it. (I.e the receiver wont think my dish is in one position when it's actually in another)

Thanks again

either save your channel list or if unchanged from the one I uploaded then reuse that one again after patching

do a factory reset BEFORE and AFTER patching as well , then reload the channel list and carry on

if you are getting one satellite like 28e, and yet no others (or few others) then your arc is incorrect and has happened to many people many times

just follow the instructions I gave you ensuring the motor mount is on the correct latitude and that your latitude and longitude has been put in correctly into your receiver so that the receiver has the correct offset inside its settings

if you are using astra 2 at 28.2e (not astra) as a reference , do not use bbc news as there are bbc channels on other satellites and may confuse you

try using vintage tv , or the vault , or bbc1 or itv1 as they are specific to astra 2 at 28.2e (or eurobird at 28.5e) and they are fta too, channels like the vault or vintage tv also have lower signals and so require a more precise alignment to work properly, as you need to use weaker signals to align a motor and the usual ones like bbc1, itv and ch4 or 5 are very strong in the uk so are not as precise

ideally you should be using 0.8w and looking for bbc world news on 11862H 28000 and the Music Channel on 11900H 28000 which are both fta channels on thor/intelsat at around 1 west and will be close to the zero marker on the motor , at the top of the arc and the dish will be almost vertical

dont worry about the war of words , there is always somebody throwing toys out of the pram when they are proved to be incorrect in what they are saying, but it really p*ss*s me off when incorrect information is put out on forums, especially when the mod krazylegs gave out the correct information 3 years ago in his sticky thread

only those wearing blinkers will not take heed of the correct details and then they seek to belittle the person who gave out the correct details, proving they were not interested in the truth, only trolling !

this is why so many installations go wrong, too many people think they are in london and ignore the facts causing bad installations when they are in lancashire or essex or sweden or ireland

where they get the idea that living in the northern hemisphere means using WEST and NORTH is incorrect too , you either use WEST or EAST as required
so for stockholm you would use 10 east, not west , but for liverpool you would use west , 3 west !

the point here is that the further away from the greenwich meridian you are, the more precise the install has to be as there is no room for error and those of us not living inside the M25 "bubble" have learned this the hard way and have proper installations because of the knowledge we gained, and then we try to help others like yourself do it properly and to avoid the misinformation put out by those who know *** all

the 200 year old history lesson has EVERYTHING to do with setting up a motor as it relates to how and why the longitude and latitude lines were agreed and set as reference parameters for the old sailing ships to navigate around the world, it is no less relevant to the 21st century where we use nuclear time clocks and the same longitude and latitude lines and reference points like greenwich to navigate using GPS on satnavs or gps locators, never mind using it to position satellites over the equator and to work out what you set your motor to when aligning it

its a shame that some people ignore education and those who do not learn from the past will find it bites them on the *** !

unless ignorance is bliss ?

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi. When people buy a motor they are not interested in history
lessons. They only want to put a motor on a dish and look for satellites. The motors you keep mentioning ie MOTEK or DARK motors have had loads of complaints from what i have read. I have never seen one complaint from TM2600 users. By the way i have changed my latitude settings to 45N, 38N 56N etc and guess what?. The motor still finds the satellites.I suggest you get yourself a TM2600 and stop giving history lessons which are a waste of time. Take care.

[Manic01]

You cant help yourself can you?
You are in denial.
Jaeger SG-2500 /Technomate TM-2600 /Moteck SG-2500
Same thing.

[ramjet]

Hi. When people buy a motor they are not interested in history
lessons. They only want to put a motor on a dish and look for satellites. The motors you keep mentioning ie MOTEK or DARK motors have had loads of complaints from what i have read. I have never seen one complaint from TM2600 users. By the way i have changed my latitude settings to 45N, 38N 56N etc and guess what?. The motor still finds the satellites.I suggest you get yourself a TM2600 and stop giving history lessons which are a waste of time. Take care.

you really havent a clue what you are talking about have you , as the above statement proves how ignorant you really are

your latitude on your motor is not controlled by your receiver as the receiver cannot control up or down movement , only lateral movement, so your experiments with latitude were a total waste of time as was you typing that info on here

if you wish to start to control up and down movement as well as lateral movement with your motor , get a motor that actually does it

when digging your own grave , the trick is to know when to stop digging as proved by the fact you had no idea a motek motor is a technomate motor

I suggest you stop giving out duff information as all you are doing is proving your own ignorance when it comes to this subject and it is you that is wasting everybodys time here with your intransigence and lies

leave it to those who actually understand what they are doing, and why it actually does it