Bedroom tax, new thread !

[Saltire]

You're describing the type of person that needs a wake up call. It shouldn't be about what the individual wants but what is best for society. If I was in charge of housing and someone came up with that shi@ I'd make her the tenant and move her into another property. I'm not paying my taxes so some spoilt brat can sit at home all day chatting to her mates.

I'm sure there are plenty of females out there looking for accomodation and maybe if she went out looking for work she wouldn't be around the house bothering her tenant. As for giving a single person a brand new property with a drive those type of properties should be going to someone who is trying to help society. You know the type. They have enough pride to accept low paid work but still deserve to get their accomodation subsidised because they are at least trying to help themselves and maybe need somewhere to park their car. A single person that sits on their arse all day chatting to their mates would be the last person that should get one.

As I've said there's always scum out there that even if you gave them everything they'd still complain it's not enough.

mannnnnn, how many times does one have to say something.

The example we speak of is wanting to give up the brand new house with a driveway and take a 1 bedroom new or old as long as its in a decent area and its a council one as private rent is far too expensive, but the example isnt going to just give up the brand new house just because it has 1 spare bedroom and move into a junkie ridden dump of an area of a place and house, would you ? no, simple as that.

I'm not going to repeat all the other stuff for the 20th time, read back yourself and you will see. thank you.

[masur123]

I think the big difference between the poll tax demos and these bedroom demos, is that the poll tax affected everyone in the country.

This only affects people who are claiming state benefits...

[Snowy79]

I've read back and apparently there aren't any one bedroom flats so short of some nice person building one specially for them it looks like they either stay where they are and take on a tenant or move to a dump.

I have some sympathy for them as I know there are decent people out there and the last thing they want is to move to an area with vermin. Trust me I've been there but fortunately I have some not so nice connections so the vermin would soon be moving out.

It's not the best thought out idea I agree but a lot of individuals bring it upon themselves. They get the same education as everyone else, paid for by the tax payer but mess around then leave with no quals then wonder why they can't get a well paid job to buy or rent their own place.

There will always be some individuals that lose out regardless what system is used, but if it reduces the benefits budget and frees up houses for larger/smaller families it can't be all that bad.

[jordigirl]

I personally think, this could be 1 of the worst idea's a government has thought up.

yes i agree, older people, single, or whatever should move to smaller houses to free up bigger houses for families etc.
but a lot are willing to downsize , and there isn't the properties for them to move to.

why should it have to affect peoples lives that much?? why should they have to move out of an area they have maybe lived in for years, and if willing to move but no suitable property is found, why should the be penalized for it??

1 example for this is a single person living in a 2 bedroom flat on the 11th floor of a tower block. there is no 1 bedroom flats free in area, but either way, councils will not put a family with children on the 11th floor anyway??
so what happens to the flat ??

[Snowy79]

Find another person that is livng in a two bedroom flat and move them into the one flat, that will free the other two bedroom flat up for someone that needs it. Simples.

I personally think, this could be 1 of the worst idea's a government has thought up.

yes i agree, older people, single, or whatever should move to smaller houses to free up bigger houses for families etc.
but a lot are willing to downsize , and there isn't the properties for them to move to.

why should it have to affect peoples lives that much?? why should they have to move out of an area they have maybe lived in for years, and if willing to move but no suitable property is found, why should the be penalized for it??

1 example for this is a single person living in a 2 bedroom flat on the 11th floor of a tower block. there is no 1 bedroom flats free in area, but either way, councils will not put a family with children on the 11th floor anyway??
so what happens to the flat ??

[tshirtman]

I think the big difference between the poll tax demos and these bedroom demos, is that the poll tax affected everyone in the country.

This only affects people who are claiming state benefits...

No it doesn't, it will effect landlords as well,

under universal credit, Housing Benefit will be paid directly to the claimant, not the landlord, and all other payments (jsa/esa/pip) will be paid monthly, instead of fortnightly,
so landlords are fearful of not getting there rent,
most social housing tenants have secure tenancies, which makes it very difficult and expensive to evict them.

[tshirtman]

Find another person that is livng in a two bedroom flat and move them into the one flat, that will free the other two bedroom flat up for someone that needs it. Simples.

get real,
that means councils will have to start doing risk assessments, DBS (CRB) checks,
do you place single females with single males??
what if the single person have children they see at the weekend, do we tell them they can no longer have access to there kids, making even more broken families.
what if the single person have alcohol or mental health problems.

and the list goes on!!

[allycoops]

The bedroom tax will strip 7,000 households in one city of vital benefits, despite there being just 50 one-bed homes available to downsize to.

It lays bare the injustice of the Tories? national plan to cut payments to council tenants with spare rooms ? even when they do not have the option to go anywhere else.

The research, in Newcastle, reveals 5,379 council tenants there have one spare room.

The plan means they will lose 14% of their housing benefit, worth ?8.40 a week on average.

Another 1,258 households with two spare bedrooms face a massive 25% cut, the equivalent of ?15 a week, or ?780 a year.

Yet Your Homes Newcastle, which looks after council housing stock, has just 50 one-bedroom homes available, even if those 6,637 families affected were able or wanted to move.

Those facing cuts include foster families, those caring for someone with a disability and divorcees who share custody of their children.

And there are thousands more Housing Association residents in the city, who could also be hit when the changes come in next month.

Furious Shadow Work and Pensions Minister Liam Byrne is now launching a campaign to highlight the ?incompetent, unfair and out of touch? Tory plans.

He said: ?Two thirds of the households hit are home to someone who is disabled.

"Foster families will also be hit, even if they have foster children in their spare room.

"Divorced parents and grandparents will be charged more if they want to keep a room for when children or grandchildren come to stay.

?To add to the chaos, there are not enough smaller properties for families to move to, yet the bedroom tax will still hit households that don?t have the option to move.?

And he hit out at the tax break being given to millionaires while the bedroom tax is about to plunge 95,000 Britons into poverty.

He said: ?While families of soldiers will have to find extra money for their son or daughter?s bedroom, 13,000 millionaires will get a tax cut worth ?100,000 a year on average.?

Cllr Michael Burke, Labour council spokesman on housing in Newcastle, also pointed to the bizarre impracticalities of the plan and called it a ?complete mess?.

He said: ?If you have twins aged nine then you would have to move, because they should be able to share a room even if it is a boy and a girl.

"Once they turn 10, you could move back to a three-bedroom property because they are allowed separate rooms.?

But Tory Michael Gove remains unrepentant.

In a Commons debate this week, he crowed: ?It is a timely and necessary action to deal with our out-of-control welfare bills.

?Thank heavens that a Coalition Government has two parties clearing up the mess left by that crew of socialist wreckers.?


Loophole boxes clever

Michael Brennan, 61, a retired technician, is fighting back with a legal challenge.

He intends to exploit a loophole in the 1985 Housing Act which means box rooms would be exempt from the tax.

Michael and wife Marie, 59, share a three-bed bungalow in Newcastle but say their third bedroom is a ?box room? covered by the Act passed by Thatcher?s Tories.

Under section 326, floor space between 50 sq ft and 70 sq ft is described as not fit to be occupied by a person.

Michael said: ?Our smallest box room is 48 sq ft so it cannot be classed as a room, so it cannot be taxed.?

The couple, both disabled, face paying ?25 a week out of their benefits which they say will come from food, heating and electric.

Son Terence, 40, a Royal Marine who stays when on leave and daughter Marie, 38, who sometimes stays to help, are also affected.

Marie said: ?I have worked all my life, so has Michael, my son and daughter. We are not spongers. We just need help.?

Michael added: ?I hope as many people as possible challenge this.?
How the bedroom tax works

* The ?bedroom tax? is not actually a tax at all, but changes to housing benefit.

* Anyone deemed to be living in a house that is ?too big? for their needs will get less benefit from April, 2013.

* Payments will be cut according to extra rooms in homes. If you have one spare room, housing benefit will be cut by 14%. With two, the cut is 25%.

* Every adult or couple in a property will be allowed their own bedroom. Children under 16 and of the same gender will have to share a room. All children under the age of 10, regardless of gender, will have to share.

* The changes will only hit council and housing association tenants. If you rent a property from a private landlord you will not be affected.

* Pensioners are exempt from the cuts. For a couple, only one person needs to be of pensionable age in order to escape the benefit changes.

* Parents with a child at university will be allowed to keep his or her bedroom, without facing a reduction in housing benefit, as long as the student stays at home for at least two weeks a year.

* Anyone with a spare bedroom, like a divorced parent who has a spare room for when their child/children come to stay, will see a reduction in their housing benefit.

* The new rules allow for one bedroom for a person over 16, a couple, two children of the same sex under 16, two children who are under 10, any other child, (other than a foster child or child whose main home is elsewhere), and one additional room for a carer (or group of carers) providing overnight care.

[tshirtman]

I was talking to a colleague yesterday, who does some voluntary work in a mental health drop-in center,
and the amount of people coming in, who are worried sick and becoming more ill due to this pernicious policy is rocketing.

like I say there will be thousands of seriously ill and dangerous mentally ill people on the streets come April,

The Tory propaganda machine has out-done itself this time.

Turning private tenants against social tenants, working people against the unemployed,

whilst all the time the fat-cat bankers who put us in this mess are getting richer,
who do you think is paying for the 5% tax cut for the rich, answer = the poorest in society.

[tshirtman]

And another thing someone pointed out to me yesterday,

The BNP are going to have a field day with this policy, they will claim all bigger houses will be taken over by immigrants who usually have big families.

They will fight the next election on this policy and they will get a lot of support.

you wouldn't think the Tory's could become even more right wing than the BNP, but they are.

[jordigirl]

Find another person that is livng in a two bedroom flat and move them into the one flat, that will free the other two bedroom flat up for someone that needs it. Simples.

only problem being, they won't have children in high rise flats,
so what happens to the 2 bedroomed flats then?

[flyingpig]

the protests and marches will go ahead though, tories are already thinking of a uturn on it because of the pressure of that and the other parties including the lib dems being against it.

The engluerlush government are idiots, they think they can easily get away with this, think again, I'm already one of the helper/organisers of the march and protest in Glasgow, I think every major city will have one, and you know what happens when they dont go according to what people know they are being ripped off for, lets just say it probably wont be nice days to come until these rejects of a joke english government get a grip and lets face it, it was the whole of england that voted them in, not scotland !

(or better still, the british people force a new election now, why not, its possible). PEOPLE POWER !

Yeah,,, Lets look at some evidence.

I remember the march against student fees - I was there!! someone died yet they still changed!

I went on a march in London against them changing public pensions, thousands upon thousands,,, what happened, yes they still changed over!!

I went on a march for a rise in public sector pay (becuase I haven't had a rise since 2008),, are we getting pay rise.... Guess what,, no chance, maybe next year - but fat chance!!

Miners strike,, lots of marches against the closure of mines in the UK, did they close, you bet your bottom dollar they did!!

Errrrrrr.... You may need a rethink.

I am for the change in welfare reform, and the reason why is the title, it is to reform the welfare state for the better. Although it could see job losses within the sector that I work in.

[flyingpig]

Saltire - I will try this with you?

Should I be able to go an live in a privately rented house in, lets say, the lovely town of Oxford, and becuase I have a few kids, I will rent a 5 bed house - I dont need one like, but I am going for a 5 bed house becuase there are no 3 beds available. Should the state pay my exhorbitently high rent?

Now I dont want you to post examples from the daily mail, I just want your honest opnion? Should the state pay my rent....

[flyingpig]

get real,
that means councils will have to start doing risk assessments, DBS (CRB) checks,
do you place single females with single males??
what if the single person have children they see at the weekend, do we tell them they can no longer have access to there kids, making even more broken families.
what if the single person have alcohol or mental health problems.

and the list goes on!!

Sorry T-Shirt man, this is already happening. The place I work for are starting to tell tenants they should get lodgers in if they need to pay the rent. It is up to the tenant to pay the rent, however they meet the payment, take it fro mother benefits as far as my employer is concerned - and rightly so!! Our rent is the same. Tenants who claim state benefits need to change their behaviour.

On a separate note, I seen a tenant today who said they couldn't share the bedroom with his disabled wife. After a quick survey, you could easily fit 2 beds in one bedroom, and I cannot see any reason why he could not share with his wife? It is his wife after all. I felt awful telling him, but then I thought, he should be the one feeling awful for making me tell him this, after all he couldn't offer no rational explanation, except that his wife was disabled and she needed space - when an OT was saying the property was adapted enough for his wife and still had lots of space!

[tshirtman]

On a separate note, I seen a tenant today who said they couldn't share the bedroom with his disabled wife. After a quick survey, you could easily fit 2 beds in one bedroom, and I cannot see any reason why he could not share with his wife? It is his wife after all. I felt awful telling him, but then I thought, he should be the one feeling awful for making me tell him this, after all he couldn't offer no rational explanation, except that his wife was disabled and she needed space - when an OT was saying the property was adapted enough for his wife and still had lots of space!

This is what the current legal challenge is about, so we'll find out soon enough whether it's legal or not.