Bedroom tax, new thread !

[Saltire]

Got word back from one of the top men in the Scottish Lib dems today and guess what, this "bedroom tax" might not even get off the ground going by what he said as they (the Scottish Lib dems) are totally apposed to it and fighting tooth and nail to get it binned.(maybe)

I also have the top dog Lib dem councillor for the area coming to the house tomorrow too, think I said before we are friends with him as well as speak about buisness issues etc too, so this should be interesting.

Will keep you posted.

Did you (the people in England I mean), know that also from the 1st of April the people on benefits will also have to find extra cash of thier own to pay the council tax, my contact in lib dems says it ranges between 2.5 to 8.5% per month ? Just incase you guys didnt know, it doesnt effect people in Scotland.

[flyingpig]

Saltire, people in the army do not go in the army to be glorified. They go in the army to earn a living and provide a service - the same as train & taxi drivers. The majority of people in army do not see front line service - I cant remember the %age who see active front line service but it is very low. If they have a mortgage for a home back home and go on a tour, should the state pay their rent / mortgage for them. Please remember the armed services first and foremost is a job, and yes, I have family in the army and that is what they say!!

You are right we dont have enough 1 / 2 bed houses for people to downsize and I can tell you with 100% certainty for why!

We have a lot of families with 3, 4 or 5 people who live in 1 and 2 bed houses / flats and they want to upsize so they are on a waiting list - and we know the size of that and it is huge. It totally outstrips the amount that are **currently** available.

Now here is the analysis!!!

We have a huge number of people who live in properties bigger than what is required. These are generally families based around parents whose children have left home, and they keep the rooms spare. They do not actively seek to move to smaller propertes and are not on a waiting list - so we dont know how many of these there are!!

Until we have the people who want to downsize we can compare with those who want to upsize and based on rough figures released by some of the bugger RSL's it is just short of what is required, but nowhere near what it is now, and what is being reported.

As far as I am aware, people will be evicted for non payment of rent, lets remember the rent has not changed. The tenant is still liable for the rent, and RSL's have this rental income put into their business plan and is not something that they can forego or be allowed to write off as bad debt, afterall the banks who lend money to RSL's would call in their debt.

There is no black hole of money. Tenants must pay - simple. They can afterall GET AN EFFING JOB TO PAY!!!!!

[flyingpig]

Sorry about the last line....

and I am not trying to say that soldiers are the same as taxi driver, obviously a soldier faces more risks, what I am trying to show is that it is a job, and a job that people choose to do - Nobody is forced.

[Diddy]

They could try work

Ok that is genius . Lets say for a moment that they manage to beat the other 5 applicants for each vacancy out there. These 5 are all unskilled so that puts them inline for .........you guessed correctly housing benefit .
As for my figures about private rents I can only go on what i see others get. There was some bint with a couple of kids on tv yesterday morning, she was fearing the benefit cap (which tbh I DO agree with)she apparently gets ?280 per week in housing benefit.....last time I checked my council rent is ?87.50 per week (i pay full rent btw due to being a se electrician so this tax doesn't effect me but I dont let that cloud my views) so she is getting an extra ?200 per week from the taxpayer that goes straight to a private individual. I would prefer to see it stay in the government money merry go round.
2nd case study my brother works as a security guard on min wage....private rent 1 bedroom ?300 per month.....I pay ?50 per month "roughly" less for my council house with 3 bedrooms.
I dont have any other examples to hand but im sure if you dig you would find many.

[flyingpig]

Ok that is genius . Lets say for a moment that they manage to beat the other 5 applicants for each vacancy out there. These 5 are all unskilled so that puts them inline for .........you guessed correctly housing benefit .
As for my figures about private rents I can only go on what i see others get. There was some bint with a couple of kids on tv yesterday morning, she was fearing the benefit cap (which tbh I DO agree with)she apparently gets ?280 per week in housing benefit.....last time I checked my council rent is ?87.50 per week (i pay full rent btw due to being a se electrician so this tax doesn't effect me but I dont let that cloud my views) so she is getting an extra ?200 per week from the taxpayer that goes straight to a private individual. I would prefer to see it stay in the government money merry go round.
2nd case study my brother works as a security guard on min wage....private rent 1 bedroom ?300 per month.....I pay ?50 per month "roughly" less for my council house with 3 bedrooms.
I dont have any other examples to hand but im sure if you dig you would find many.

Not going off topic - but you need to understand that their is a definite difference between unemployed ad out of work to those who dont and wont work! This will make all accountable and force them to look for work and actually want to work!!

we have a lot of families which currently have 3rd generation of worklessness in their family. It needs to change.

[Saltire]

You dont want the tax, so i am assuming you want millions of council homes to be built throughtout the UK enabling everyone to stay in their bigger homes and this issue to go away

So who will pay for that?

Mate the English Government have made a big mistake and they know it now, this bedroom tax was not needed, it serves no purpose from the amount of money they will make from it which will be litrally zero as people cant even afford to eat a can of beans never mind pay approx ?50 per month from thier benefits, so its "lets not eat time and turn off the electric and gas meter time" and basically wither away and die, thats what they want anyway as far as I'm concerned, so I heard.

Its going to cost the English government millions to try and bring this in with the cost of chasing people for debt, then you have the complete meltdown of the court system, the council system, the police, everything, I very much doubt it will happen at all, but if it does, by god, wait n see what happens all over the UK.

MAYBE if they would have took that extra 5% mansion tax from the rich people then we would all be fine now , do you ever think about that ? The rich get Richer and the poor get poorer again and again, the rich must be laughing all the way to the bank while they spit on the likes of us !

[Diddy]

Not going off topic - but you need to understand that their is a definite difference between unemployed ad out of work to those who dont and wont work! This will make all accountable and force them to look for work and actually want to work!!

we have a lot of families which currently have 3rd generation of worklessness in their family. It needs to change.

But it is going off topic. But I don't mind Im not a mod. Facts are still facts mate. There are AT LEAST 5 people chasing each vacancy out there. There are no figures available as to how many of these vacancies would take people out of the benefit system...I would love to see them stats. Some people in work receive more in benefits than those out of work do. Now there is a train of thought that would say thats a good thing. BUT I again feel that companies should be paying not national minimum wage but a living wage....Its all pie in the sky though as its all gone too far the other way.

[Saltire]

@ flyingpig.

mate, I could take you round Glasgow and greater Glasgow, Glasgow is MASSIVE, and I could bet you ?1000 that we dont find 1 bedroom houses available, and they are not building any either.

The person I speak on behalf of, I think we used my daughter just for talking sake is more than willing to give up a brand new built 2 bedroom end terrace house to take a 1 bedroom, old or new, THERES NONE !

All becuase she cant afford to pay ?50 extra a month, so she cant pay it, simple as that, I cant stress enough that people on benefits just cant afford 5p never mind ?50 per month, this has got to be an april fools joke right enough

[flyingpig]

@ flyingpig.

mate, I could take you round Glasgow and greater Glasgow, Glasgow is MASSIVE, and I could bet you ?1000 that we dont find 1 bedroom houses available, and they are not building any either.

The person I speak on behalf of, I think we used my daughter just for talking sake is more than willing to give up a brand new built 2 bedroom end terrace house to take a 1 bedroom, old or new, THERES NONE !

All because she cant afford to pay ?50 extra a month, so she cant pay it, simple as that, I cant stress enough that people on benefits just cant afford 5p never mind ?50 per month, this has got to be an April fools joke right enough

Saltire - you still haven't grasped that there are none available because the people who have the bigger houses do not want to move to smaller properties - they want to be carried out in a box!! Therefore they take up 2 or maybe 3 bedrooms when they should be in a 1 bedroom property.

If those people give up a large house, there will be a swap. People are bedroom blocking and being allowed to get away with it - Accountability.

[Diddy]

I am loving this thread . I am reading back a bit and have now discovered that public sector workers are basically in the government money merry-go-round. So public sector workers don't pay tax ? Don't Pay NI ? Dont buy goods and services that props up the private sector . Money doesn't come out of thin air or does it . Like I alluded to earlier I would be in 100% agreement if someone were to point out that our financial system sucks. It deffo does. It's not sustainable with finite resources. But to continue on the model we in the west have chosen we must make the correct choices. Now these days a lot of people led my what they read in newspapers and see on tv which they take as the norm are taking a right of centre view of politics. TBH I can't get it in my head how ANY person who is true working class (I would bet 99.999999% of people in this forum are true working class) could support right of centre politics where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
I read all the bull about we need the rich and we need to keep em sweet ect ect ect. Well get this they NEED the poor as much as we need them.
I need a new part to vote for tbh as even labour is too much middle-right of centre for my liking these days...but again thats prob good for another thread and another day.

[tshirtman]

we'll see how good Labour's policy advisers are,

If they have any sense they will make a manifesto promise for the next election, to copy what Harold Macmillan did in the 1950's,
they should promise to build 1 million social/private homes in the next term of office, Macmillan built 1.5 million homes in 4 years.

Although thanks to this bunch of jokers it will cost a lot more now, as housing associations have just had their credit rating downgraded,
making it more expensive to borrow money.

[Saltire]

Saltire - you still haven't grasped that there are none available because the people who have the bigger houses do not want to move to smaller properties - they want to be carried out in a box!! Therefore they take up 2 or maybe 3 bedrooms when they should be in a 1 bedroom property.

If those people give up a large house, there will be a swap. People are bedroom blocking and being allowed to get away with it - Accountability.

no mate, your totally wrong, because of this bedroom tax I know loads of people wanting to give up thier larger homes but there is no 1 bedroom properties available old or new, none, zilch, zero, you getting me now ?

This is funny, I thought about the lodger thing, LOL, can you imagine taking in a lodger into your 2 bedroom house, what a bloomin laugh that would be, NOT !

[thered]

I am loving this thread . I am reading back a bit and have now discovered that public sector workers are basically in the government money merry-go-round. So public sector workers don't pay tax ? Don't Pay NI ? Dont buy goods and services that props up the private sector .

ffs doesnt matter if you tax any government worker 90%

Government is still 10% down

Doesnt matter where in the foodchain the money goes the money is never ever recouped in full

Its common sense

But it is going off topic. But I don't mind Im not a mod. Facts are still facts mate. There are AT LEAST 5 people chasing each vacancy out there. There are no figures available as to how many of these vacancies would take people out of the benefit system...I would love to see them stats. Some people in work receive more in benefits than those out of work do. Now there is a train of thought that would say thats a good thing. BUT I again feel that companies should be paying not national minimum wage but a living wage....Its all pie in the sky though as its all gone too far the other way.

If that were true immigrants would not find work, i have never had trouble

Those statistics are pure BS

Yes they are approx 450,000 jobs every week

So yes that figure may stack up 5 for every vacancy

That statistics assuming all the people in the statistic are actually applying for every job and not throwing the leads in the bin outside the job centre after signing on, hmmmmm?

we'll see how good Labour's policy advisers are,

If they have any sense they will make a manifesto promise for the next election, to copy what Harold Macmillan did in the 1950's,
they should promise to build 1 million social/private homes in the next term of office, Macmillan built 1.5 million homes in 4 years.

Although thanks to this bunch of jokers it will cost a lot more now, as housing associations have just had their credit rating downgraded,
making it more expensive to borrow money.

Another 750,000 housing benefit claimants then, sure that will help

Plus cost of building


Short term solution, long term pain

[Diddy]

ffs doesnt matter if you tax any government worker 90%

Government is still 10% down

Doesnt matter where in the foodchain the money goes the money is never ever recouped in full

Its common sense

Last post tonight as going to give misses one . It's not the tax nor the NI that really matters with regards to public sector workers like it or not public sector workers create wealth for private companies by buying goods and paying for services. No matter what your job is public sector employees help to keep you employed. If you either disagree or cant grasp that as a fact of life then im afraid we will just have to move on as I would be as well explaining it to the brick wall on the side of my garage. Im not mocking you Im just trying to get across a fact that may have escaped you. Public sector workers are not the scum drain on society that the government of today would like you to believe.
Private industry and enterprise is all well and good but it is not and never has been NOR ever will be big enough to sustain our western style economy. It quite simply does not work. Prove me wrong by all means show me one country in the whole world where private companies have sustained growth and kept the economy moving.

[Saltire]

ffs doesnt matter if you tax any government worker 90%

Government is still 10% down

Doesnt matter where in the foodchain the money goes the money is never ever recouped in full

Its common sense



If that were true immigrants would not find work, i have never had trouble

Statistics are pure BS

Yes they are approx 450,000 jobs every week

So that figure may stack up 5 for every vacancy


Thats assuming all the people in the statistic are actually applying and not throwing the leads in the bin outside the job centre after signing on





Another 750,000 housing benefit claimants then, sure that will help

Plus cost of building


Short term solution, long term pain

no offence to anyone, but could Mod's start removing posts that have nothing to do with the original topic of the "Bedroom Tax".

Hopefully this should help now.