Bedroom tax, new thread !

[Lainie]

can i ask saltire if these people are long term sick what the types of illnesses are?

i deal with this every single day and id like to hear what these illnesses are that mean they can never work?

now before you jump down my throat there are people i personally know of that have bi-polar, ms, blind, deaf, paralysis, menieres disease, ocd, bpd, and they all work. all my family and friends work and 95% have mortgages. i struggle to work 30 hours a week with my medical conditions however im damn proud of myself for not lying down to them and getting off my backside and go to work.

ive had people phoning to claim esa with copd and they are smoking on the phone! people saying they are housebound and cant get out and cant call their benefit delivery centre as its an 0845 number as they only have a mobile. ask them cant you use a friend or family members phone etc then they say "i dont have any" oh really then who does your bloomin shopping for you. then they ask for a crisis loan. how can you go to the jobcentre and pick up your money i asked - silence at the other end

they say they cant fill out form as im "no good" at it and the citizens advice etc help them. now they cant cope cause of people who want bloody spoon fed. you will never learn dear unless you try.

another one someone got "if i tick no in question 5 then do i go to question 6? doh

ive even had an ******* that said when asked his date of birth " i dont know" . im told by my mum that she gave birth to me on 01/01/1980 (to use as an example) however i dont remember being born!

they must think we came up the clyde backwards .

in my opinion if you cant pay your rent you have no right to demand to stay in a particular "good" area.

[flyingpig]

Agree Lainee.... Lots of people are classed as disabled, and they automatically assume they don't have to work!! Yet they can do certain jobs.

I myself suffer menieres, which can severely affect my day to day life. However, I am a succesful professional who has only had 10 wrking days off work in the last 5 years. I like you, get out of bed, and push through whatever it is that is in my way!!

[firestorm]

it has gone before parliament and the house of lords, how on this earth can it be a tax or illegal.

You are unreal!!

I read your point with interest
Not everything the government imposes on us is legal and can be challenged
"Graduate wins fight against Poundland A graduate has thrown the Government?s back-to-work programme into ?advanced chaos? after a court ruled that she should not have been made to work in Poundland for nothing. "
Never be a sheep and believe what the government tell you when you know its wrong.They can be beaten in court or at the ballet box.

[flyingpig]

I read your point with interest
Not everything the government imposes on us is legal and can be challenged
"Graduate wins fight against Poundland A graduate has thrown the Government***8217;s back-to-work programme into ***8220;advanced chaos***8221; after a court ruled that she should not have been made to work in Poundland for nothing. "
Never be a sheep and believe what the government tell you when you know its wrong.They can be beaten in court or at the ballet box.

This was an extreme case, and you are nearly right, but what did the government do immediately after??? Yes, got the almost exact same law, with a slight ammendment through!! So the status quo remains.

When bills are passed by both houses of parliament - it does become law. You can appeal and try to change the law, however, technically it is not against the law. The young girl wasn't awarded any compo (as far as I am aware) and nobody was prosecuted, just that the law was subsquently changed, but it certainly was law at the time the young girl was working.

[firestorm]

This was an extreme case, and you are right, but what did the government do immediately after??? Yes, got the almost exact same law, with a slight ammendment through!! So the status quo remains.

Until it get challenged again and again
They will have to change the fact that benefits are deemed by law to be the minimal amount needed to live, there for removing ?12 a week from some one is then putting them into poverty and there children into child poverty which is illegal under European laws.

[Lainie]

firestorm

parents who dont work get ?73 per week per child in child tax credit and child benefit. if the children are in poverty then it means the parents are obv not spending the money on the children - prob on fags and booze

[firestorm]

It gets very confusing flyingpig when you edit your post after some one as answered them a lot better to answer with a fresh post.But to answer your point the law was overturned because it was illegal and that was the point i was trying to prove to you was that the law was deemed illegal and that is what the Court of Appeal ruled even though the goverment changed it later what i quoted was 100% correct.
slightly off topic
Labour claims work on universal credit system has been halted but DWP insists plans for April completion are still on course

Labour has claimed that the government's universal credit plans have hit serious problems and that work on the ?500m IT delivery contract has been halted and hundreds of IT staff stepped down.

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) denied the claim and said the new head of the universal credit (UC) delivery system was in discussions with contractors.

Labour says senior sources among the five firms working on the IT contract have said work has been stopped. Although claims about IT difficulties have dogged the introduction of UC for nearly a year, the shadow work and pensions secretary, Liam Byrne, is convinced a huge new problem has emerged and is airing his concerns ahead of a debate on in the Commons on Wednesday.

His office says the DWP has made clear to the major contractors that hundreds of staff are no longer needed.

There have been suggestions from some ministers that work might be taken in-house as a result of the discussions.

Important figures, including the project chief, Malcolm Whitehouse, have already left the programme.

The DWP hired David Pitchford as the interim chief executive of UC in February after the death of Philip Langsdale over Christmas. Pitchford, previously the executive director of the government's Major Projects Authority ***8211; which takes charge of all the government's major IT projects ***8211; has been recruited pending the appointment of a full-time replacement.

The DWP said: "David Pitchford has been tasked with ensuring the smooth delivery of the universal credit and has been speaking to key suppliers as part of this process.

"Work on UC continues ahead of delivery in April and our plans for the October rollout have not changed."

Labour said that DWP suggestions that there was no change to the contract were "wholly misleading".

Accenture, the company at the centre of the controversy, refused to comment apart from saying it was a matter for the DWP. The IT consulting and outsourcing provider is to manage the subcontractors building the customer-facing component of the scheme.

The principal subcontractor will be Atos, which Accenture chose for "its strong track record of successfully delivering IT services for the Department for Work and Pensions, and with a particular focus on delivering secure online citizen self-service applications", it said in a statement.

But Byrne said he had seen evidence that the reforms were in "meltdown". He said: "Universal credit has descended into universal chaos and millions of families' tax credits are at risk because ministers would not listen to clear and repeated warnings issued to them since November 2010."

He added: "Iain Duncan Smith must now come before parliament and account for the incompetent mess his department has become. His Work Programme is worse than doing nothing, his bedroom tax hits soldiers but not prisoners, and now his flagship universal credit scheme is falling apart.

"We were promised universal credit would be the answer to all our prayers but now it has descended into one giant mess," he said.

In a separate debate in the Commons on Tuesday, Duncan Smith again denied UC was experiencing IT problems. UC is due to start on 29 April with pilot projects in Ashton-under-Lyne, Oldham, Warrington and Wigan. The initial focus will be on a small number of jobseeker's allowance claims by single people in certain postcodes and then from October 2013 to March 2014 it will extend to cover all different types of claims across the country.

The DWP has said some of the initial north-west claims would be processed manually.

UC will incorporate housing benefit and will be payable to those working full-time or part-time as well as the unemployed.

Crunch time for credit

Universal credit, launching in pilot areas in April before going nationwide, is the holy grail of work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith's welfare reforms, a policy he has called "a doorway to real aspiration and achievement".

He hopes it will both simplify the current costly and complex multiple benefits system, while being sophisticated enough to ensure people are better off in work than on welfare.

Few critics reject the overall aim but many fear what will happen in practice: people may fail to cope with monthly payments or online applications; tenants used to having housing benefit paid direct to landlords may fall into arrears; tough new sanctions may tip rule-breakers into destitution.

Ministers say some households will be better off but campaigners say others ***8211; including tens of thousands of disabled adults and children ***8211; will be impoverished as a result.


http://www.guardian....n-claims-labour

[allycoops]

Lainie Can I ask why you came to DK or any of the other forums like it you are a or were a member of?

[firestorm]

firestorm

parents who dont work get ?73 per week per child in child tax credit and child benefit. if the children are in poverty then it means the parents are obv not spending the money on the children - prob on fags and booze

Lainie
I dont say what is the poverty line it is set at.If you think ?73 is excessive then you should wright to your mp and explain that to him or her.If they are a torry then no doubt they will agree with you.
But unit the government changes what it deems to be the minimum need to live off then it will be illegal to force a child into poverty under your human rights.If i am not sure the German government has suffered under a similar ruling last month.

[Lainie]

Lainie Can I ask why you came to DK or any of the other forums like it you are a or were a member of?

and thats appropriate why?

[flyingpig]

Sorry Firestorm - I thought of something to add, and had to change a word or 2 to contextualise it. No mailice intended and didnt want to double post!!

The technicalities of the law are no end. If the both houses pass a bill, it becomes law, the appeal court does have the power to reject, overturn (these are real terms - but not the actual term), however, all of a sudden what the law was will stand, but from the decision by the appeal court they have changed the law at that point in time, and thus going forward it would be illegal. The law is not retrospective!!

This is the best retrospective example I can give.

If day 1 is today and it is illegal to drive without insurance and you do, you will be prosectured, if day 2 - tomorrow it is legal to drive a car without insurance, and you do, then the day after Day 3 - the appeal court overturn that decision, it does not mean that you have broken the law on day 2, as the law stands, the appeal court will overturn the decision.

[allycoops]

Because I'm interested as why such a high and mighty DWP worker would be on sites like these. It suprises me when most of us came here or come here to beat one system or another .ie. cable, sat, etc

It also suprises me that the DWP now employs "Doctors" as pen pushers who can come on a forum like this and tell us about disabled people and why they shouldn't be entitled to their benefits.

[flyingpig]

Because I'm interested as why such a high and mighty DWP worker would be on sites like these. It suprises me when most of us came here or come here to beat one system or another .ie. cable, sat, etc

It also suprises me that the DWP now employs "Doctors" as pen pushers who can come on a forum like this and tell us about disabled people and why they shouldn't be entitled to their benefits.

I think that is unfair and un called for!! No one is high and mighty. The doctors are used to medically asses, would you like to me to do the assesment? Who in your opinion is best suited to do the assesment?

a - a qualified medical professional?
b - a administration assistant?
c - a civil servant?

I know which one I want to do the medical assesment? Also, if you have people who claim DLA as they are sick - do you think they should be re-assessed? Or do you think sick people stay sick? Do you think that people swing the lead and try it on? I know they do, so dont even pretend that people dont!

That is why we need trained proffesionals to do it. People are unreal!!

[firestorm]

I am not here to argue about law.But the law that was enforced at the time Cait Reilly went to court was deemed to be illegal and not enforceable.
Any law can be overturned if its not lawful and has the so called bedroom tax as not been applied yet it cant be challenged till it is fully in place.The more worrying fact is that legal aid is being changed to stop the poor fighting for there rights.

[Lainie]

Because I'm interested as why such a high and mighty DWP worker would be on sites like these. It suprises me when most of us came here or come here to beat one system or another .ie. cable, sat, etc

It also suprises me that the DWP now employs "Doctors" as pen pushers who can come on a forum like this and tell us about disabled people and why they shouldn't be entitled to their benefits.

you dont need to be a doctor to know some disabled people can work.