freemasons taking over the world

[nara]

then my friend you are completely wrong !
even in a court of law you are required to suppose an alibi ..or proclaim the facto of innocence

Nonsense, as usual. You really must do some research before spouting drivel.

The burden of proof, in a trial, is on the prosecution. They bring the charge and they must prove, by admissible evidence, each element of the charge against the defendant. Another way of describing this is the presumption of innocence: The defendant does not have to prove his innocence, it is presumed unless and until the prosecution prove the contrary.

[chroma]

Theres only one way for me to disprove a handshake wih absolout certainty, thats to show you the real grips.

This would go against my oath, and thas not a road i'm willing to go down.

That being said, there are only a few cases where using a grip is necessary, namely gaining access to a lodge where your unknown to the oher members.
Meeting an interviewer on national television doesnt qualify as any of the situations where identification would be required. So why would you use something so formal in such a promiscuous manner?

As for the notion of invoking Godwins Law, its laughable.
Take the Nazi party, The Arian Brotherhood, The KKK. They all have one thing in common that sets them aside from the craft.
Theyre all founded on hate.
Since their inception they've routinely executed people who didnt fit their ideals, to my knowledge the lodges have never gassed any Jews, burned out shop owners or lynched black folks. On the contrary we openly accept members that fit into categories other groups propose to hate and target.

We have a system of ACCEPTANCE rather than "Tolerance" The only idalistic notion to refuse membership we have is citizenship, if you're a murderer, bank robber or rapist we dont want any part of you inside our broterhood, we take a dim view of criminals and villains.
Commit a serious crime and expect to be expeled by your brothers.

So whilst various other groups are founded on principles of hate and have agendas to back this up Freemasonry most certainly doesnt.

Our criteria are as follows:
You wll be a man of good will.
Good character
Good reputation.
Whom believes in a creator and practices universal good will towards his fellow man.
You will be loyal you your country
Expected to adhere to rigidly the principles of fellowship and friendship.

As for our agenda? thats even easier although open to wild speculation and missenterpretation.
"Build a better world."

So just what principles are followed to build this better world? simply put, build better men.
In fact our entire motto is "better men make better worlds."

If your not a good man then your brothers will notice and you will be expelled, regardless of your title or ammount of time and effort spent to gain what power you may have held.
Every one of our 6 million odd members is kept under a watchful eye by the rest, there are checks and balances in place to quickly and effectively weed out any corruption.
We are also fairly anti corruption as a whole, we take a very dim view on members who would seek financial benifit or power from their membership.

A far cry from genocide, eugenics, hate and gentrification that we get unfairly lumped in with in regards to other groups.

This isnt to say that we're perfect, on the contrary we're definately not, we do have bad apples amongst our bunch but they do eventualy become forced to take responsibility for their actions.
We are principled and honourable men and fully aware that people are distrustful of us, its therefore important that you conduct yourself throughout your life above reproach. a mason should be aware that he is a mason first and foremost and his actions where ever he conducts himself will reflect on the fraternity as a whole.

To lump us in with other miscreants and deviants is unfounded at best, after several centuries any serious agenda of wrongdoing or malintent would have surfaced long ago.

[racin-snake]

then my friend you are completely wrong !
even in a court of law you are required to suppose an alibi ..or proclaim the facto of innocence
fact .. if you refuse a breath test it in law confirms your guilt
prove the facts and then make a denial in FACT
as denials and mockery prove more in the opposite direction?
i have seen your one line efforts on this subject
care to make a simple post on your take on the subject ?
be nice to see what facts you have to dispel any questions i may have ?
??????
oh and are you in the craft ?
your standpoint is unclear in this department
prove liability not credibility of the witness ....another assumption another stab at the truth .e.e misinformation
THE FACTS provide answers not ASSUMPTIONS therefore if no facts are proven then what else is the there
assumptions ?
or theories based on non facts ect let us see the full picture then you will have debunked or confirmed the whole scenario
not proven does not mean not guilty
not proven does not mean guilty
it means the mandate is not either proven in fact or dis proven so the bastard theory applies until either one is fact
it means if you cannot disprove the conspiracy theories and the evidence they provide
each will continue to have equal credibility
no room for any other conception ime afraid
except use you own initiative
there lies the formula for the whole thing ...prove or disprove
don't mock someone's opinion until you know the facts 100%
if you believe all that's written and reported in the media
then you have let yourself down
in this world spin and media are all becoming far too commonly used as a factual and information system
fiction is fiction whether it be a point of view or a interpenetration of the facts
look no further than the down right facts and then make the right answers

[nara]

there again where is the proof ?
can you prove this is not a masonic hand shake ?

You certainly have an interesting take on logic.

It is a generally accepted principal that the burden of proof rests with the person making the accusation.

[racin-snake]

there again where is the proof ?
can you prove this is not a masonic hand shake ?

no ....you cant or wont
so on the other hand .why should we or anyone believe you either?
i do not as you have only confirmed your self as one of many
there is no proof in any of your statements on any post you have taken great effort to write
speculation and the bare essentials of what your creed/religion\whatever you claim it to be has taught you to

did you know the reason for a 33rd degree answer NO !
you denied the existence in the mainstream ...
"quote"
Everything above is not even technicly a "rank" its more honourary, a symbol of hard work and effort, in masonic terms its nothing more than an arbitrary number. someone who has undergone the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite is no more "superior" than your average Master Mason, hes just more respected by the yankees as having done the work, simmilar to the education systems BSc and BSc hons.
"unquote "

did you also know 98% of the nazi party did not know of the full agendas of the party ..FACT

so when you answered it was just an answer of what you and the lower echelons are told
not the full agenda ?
speculation ? maybe ..but are you 100%

like ive said before ..and as someone else said
take EVERYTHING with a large pinch of salt

you mentioned trust and honour ...
take these two concepts as platform
even these have connotations ...IE blind trust and misplaced honour
like the concept you have posted ...am i to belive it based on 0 % fact?
the same amount of fact you ascertained for everyone else who has opposed your idea of the full picture
also
the idea of many aspects of your brotherhood
are seen repeated throughout the world ie the arian brotherhood ?
do you see where i am coming from?
i do not aNd will never trust people or sects /cults /with hidden agendas and urge people not to either
the fact is these things due to human nature greed and so on are subject to
not speculation of abuse and manipulation but its as you have said yourself as a real and viable concept
to sum it up if you blindly believe all the people in authority
then who are the sheep ?
free thinking imho is a right NOT debatable a basic human right
to blindly follow ??
i do not think so
so when you debunk or dismiss theories you are welcome to your view
but do not state facts till you are 100% sure they are indisputable
secrecy is a concept which i corruptible
dont you agree ?

the foil hatters you refer to are welcome also to their view
do you not agree this too ?
as its based on questions you cannot or will not answer to their satisfaction

i also have read thereds total posts on these matters debunking things he knows less than a few sentences about
making humour from trying (poorly) to ridicule other theories
then looking for answers on other posts
i think when you say you had a breakdown you in fact are in denial my friend
have a look at his posts you will see a huge amount of misinformation he regards as truths ...
read care fully the david ike post
you then will see he knows nothing
more or less post clocking on a subject he knows nothing about
think when he took the three or four day tripp he shorted a few wires in the brain

this is nothing to do with conspiracy theories or religion or anything else like an agenda for myself
i merely put forward the notion that if you ask questions and get only more questions then something is wrong
for centuries the lords and kings of this world have used and manipulated
with fiction /untruths /misinformation /disinformation and blatant lies
but spoon fed to the masses none the less
i do not claim that anything like the arrivals is based on fact
i do not believe religion is based on fact either
in all honesty
all i would ask is
DO NOT WALK BLINDLY ..SEEK THE TRUTH ?
the whole point of my questions if you like
question what your told

AS ONE THING YOU WILL AGREE ON
POWER CORRUPTS ...ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY

television and the media ...question what they tell you
question why they tell you
as these all have been set-up to provide information
and as we have seen disinformation blatant lies and PROPAGANDA all tools to fool the masses the facts are 100% facts

another great thing ive learned is thee are three sides to a story
THEIR SIDE ..YOUR SIDE ..AND THE TRUTH
there is no spin on this just asking you to ask them ...
why when and how
if none of the above are satisfactory ask again ...
politicians and our leaders are men and only men
and in he fact of the matter as posted these are corruptable from many sources
think and asses what they tell you

racin-snake

[chroma]

Nope, but ever heard the words Inevitable?



seeing is believing
YouTube- ‪Barak Obama's a free mason‬‎

BY GOD YOUR RIGHT! SEEING IS BELIEVING!
Just one issue with the video however, it doesnt resemble any of the masonic grips

[irfy]

You need to be unplugged ur in the Matrix

what questions?

if all this crap is to be believed WHAT are you going to do about it all ?

the common thing that people say is that we are all dumb and cant see the bigger picture because they have made us this make believe world and fill us full of aspartame to make us stupid and cant see the "bigger picture"

we sort of live in a trueman style film and these powere figures control us like puppets

they take all our money,they start wars,they are all related,they are shapeshifting lizards and they are going to cull the population by poisoning us

there may be some elements of truth in small pockets but most of it is ludicrous and absolutley stupid beyond belief

i find it quite amusing that the people who are saying we are brain washed are the ones who are actally brain washed and they cant see any other side but there own no matter how it sounds

related people in power what a load of crap if you search anyones family tree hard enough you can unearth all sorts in fact your more likely to be related to at least one american president than not related to one

if these rothchilds and rockerfellers ect are after all our money and want us all dead why do we have an NHS in the UK paid for by our taxes

why can we get free prescriptions?

why can we get housing benefit?

why can i get a mobility car if i have a bad leg?

why do we have a massive welfare system?


why do we have parks? swimming baths? waste collections?


to suggest we give all our cash to secret societies and they control our lives is ~~~~in ridiculous if you look around you can see where our money goes yes there may be people who pocket a bit along the way but who wouldnt tbh

im up for a bit of conspiracy but all this is 95% ridiculous its all based on no facts whatsoever just a few peoples over active imaginations and trying to join dots




another thing what makes me laugh btw is all these symbols on notes and above lodges and colledges ect

you can almost picture the scene "right lads we will get our families together and rule the world but dont tell anyone its THE BIGGEST SECRET no one must know, we will rule the world by herding the population like sheep and control them like puppets"

then we will leave loads symbols on statues,buildings and bank notes and shake each others hand in a funny way no one will click on


wouldnt it have been easier and a better kept secret NOT to ADVERTISE and keep it quiet ffs call in alfred hitchcocks hardy boys they will solve it

Its not ur money they really care about, its ur SOUL! Im sure everyone remembers the pulp fiction movie. remember the suitcase that the boss wanted back so badly. Ask urself what was in it???

Anyone???

Lets not get too uptight and defensive here, it seems we have people here from different cultures, sex's and religion.

Keep it sweet n informative

[z786]

Nope, but ever heard the words Inevitable?

As for the list of masons LMAO Obama? thats pure rumour and if you do some homework you'll find it originates from another nutcase. Namely Leo Young (aka Leo Zagami) hardly a reputable source.

seeing is believing
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqwOFuHGnW4&feature=related"]YouTube- ‪Barak Obama's a free mason‬‎[/ame]

[flyingpig]

Haha... ---- That is serious paranoia... And some laughable stuff...

"also, true, they have been around for thousands of years
slowly paving the way for their messiah or "the great architect"

now that israel is created, they are securing the borders
the false messiah has 2 imitate the real 1, so he has to be appointed in the same place"

What a load of tosh......

Have you ever heard the word co-incidence?

[Herbie]

Why do I get the feeling a peep called English is lurking in the background here.
Mind I could be paranoid.

[racin-snake]

thank you this is exactly what i asked for
a straight answer not a combat of wills or intelect
as said before i am not a conspiracy theorist but i like to know what is what
your time taken to answer is appreciated ...racin-snake

[chroma]

this doesn't answer any of the questions ?

It clearly explains both the need for secrecy and the surrounding symbolism, im sorry its not what you want to hear and nowhere near as exciting as being the grand architects of a plot for global domination, but there you have it, life generaly isnt like the movies.

tradition does not dictate this level of secrecy does it?

ive also briefly covered this too, the "level" of secrecy is fairly narrow nowadays, a lot of what the masons now do is a matter of public record, you can easily trace back money for instance there are clear paper trails that follow the laws of the land. You can under certain circumstances obtain a list of members.
Parliamentary members for instance are required BY LAW to declare their memberships to either the masons or any other organisation they're part of.

All thats really kept secret nowadays are our ritual allegories and thats about it. Agendas and minuites are meticulously kept during meetings just like any company/organisation or corporation.

The level of secrecy you suggest frankly doesnt exist, its well known that the only way for three people to keep a grand secret is if two of them are dead.

The secrecy with the masons is far from grand, we dont want our rituals and how we identify each other to become common knowledge for obvious reasons, if everyone knew our symbolism there woldnt be much point in having it, its this level of secrecy that maintains our traditions and you can easily see its fairly benign.

also rituals fun education?
don't think so mate it sounds worse than what you call the "foil hat brigade "
not much worse than i regard the freemasons in truth
a bunch of outdated sphincters which claim great things yet do nothing in actuality

This is your opinion and your very entitled to it, no matter how inaccurate it proclaims to be. rituals are nothing more than dramas acted out as a group, each with a moral and ethical lesson. if thats not your thing then its not your thing, no skin off my back. Other masons and I thoroughly enjoy it, theres nothing more rewarding than taking part in an entered apprentices induction and seeing the positive effect it has on them.

and their secrecy provides the question and answers too in all honesty i cannot imagine a realistic person thinking that the rest of the world is mad because they come to conclusions that this society could dispel but either wont or will not for another reason ?

Its more cant than wont, ive tried to dispel your fears, ive been open and stupidly tried to prove a negative, we've seen just how open you where to my postings. When met with a wall of argumentom ad ignorantium, generaly the best thing to do is walk away from someone proposing that because X has never been proven means it MUST be false, or vice versa.
I also dont consider the rest of the world mad, merely a small, vocal minority of fantasy punters with overactive imaginations.

and then call us foil hatters for being suspicious...if you have a question do you ask for an answer?

I certainly do, however i certainly dont proclaim to know the truth based on sketchy assumptions with no realistic basis then expect to be taken credibly for it.

if no answer is provided and dispelled then what conclusion does that bring to you?

Certainly not anything as grandioise as plots for global domination perpetrated by reptiles from the fourth dimension.

Answers are routinely provided, like ive already stated if you want to know anything about freemasonry then a mason will happily tell you everything you want to know, aside from a small subset of information thats traditionaly kept secret, if you want to know those then by all means youre welcome to join in and take part.

The truth however is that this doesnt fit well with peoples "David Icke" and "Dan Brown" perception of grand plans and global plots. Its akin to asking a school child if hed rather do his algebra homework or spend the evening shooting covenant troops in halo. Guaranteed he'll choose to live out a fantasy over study any day of the week.

so again what does it take to become a 30 32 and 33 degree mason ?

You need to be an Americanized mason for starters, theres no such thing in Scotland. Which is strange considering that they term degrees after the 3rd as part of the "Scottish rites."
In true american form they need MORE! BIGGER! FASTER! (we Scots happily wear a kilt and can clearly display our junk is bigger without having to resort to such overcompensation)

Take the 33rd or any of them outside of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Simply put, anything after the 3rd degree is like an Oscar. Does Clint Eastwood get brought into the inner sanctium of global overlords over any other actor because hes won an award for best actor in a motion picture?

The first three are training towards becomming a Master Mason (Entered Apprentice, Journeyman and Master Mason), MM is the "Highest Rank" attainable to a mason, anything outside of this is just fluff. Latter day e-penis to be honest.
Everything above is not even technicly a "rank" its more honourary, a symbol of hard work and effort, in masonic terms its nothing more than an arbitrary number. someone who has undergone the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite is no more "superior" than your average Master Mason, hes just more respected by the yankees as having done the work, simmilar to the education systems BSc and BSc hons.
This generaly means that whilst fellow classmates spent time in the student union knocking back cheap beer the honours student instead spent the time hitting the books.

People outside of the Lodge have a hard time comprehending this, clearly being a 33 must be better than a 3 right? i mean higher numbers are generaly better right? A level 33 druid shaman can kick the ass of a lowly level 3 in hand to hand combat in WoW so clearly this must translate to the masonic order too!
Like i said theyre nothing more than honourary titles, a mark of respect for a lifetimes acomplishment towards masonry and the wider community.
So what does it take to obtain the 33rd degree? simple honest hard work, study and a high degree of community involvment, theres also the matter of the monatary donation and following the american system of more numbers is better logic. (this is just a generalisation however as there are slight differences depending on jurisdiction, the americans cant ever agree on anything standard)

In the UK it takes far longer to become a recognised MM than it does stateside, you can study for years and put in a lot of effort and still be no more than a Journeyman, so we really dont need all these superfluous titles to stroke our egos. We also dont officialy recognise the american system, although we dont prevent our members from going over then and taking part if they wish to do so, we just make it clear that if they return back to the UK their titles will be no more recognised than as being simple Master Masons.

Again this doesnt tie in all too well with the conspiricy theorists ideals of praying to the antichrist whilst bathed in the moonlit blood of an infant child...
Therefore it cant possibly be true can it?

and why is it that in a modern world does it have to be secret if there's no hidden agenda ?
i dont think the history lesson is what i asked for just a simple why and how
any chance of a reason or answer

To protect our traditions and membership, to add an air of prestige and mystery and plain old fasioned fun.
Nothing of any real value is kept secret, again ive covered this, public records are available, actual masons are very open to questions and theres no evidence of anything sinister being kept from the public at large.
All thats kept to any level of secrecy is our methods of identifying each other and our allegories.
You can even get minuites for lodge meetings to see whats happening inside but again they dont reek of lizards taking over the world so theyre often pushed aside to make way for the fantastic. A page full of someone proposing a motion to donate to a certain charity and the processes of forwarding the motion make for far more dry fare.

also i did not mention your validity on freemasonry being a religion
but any chance of explaining why its deemed as having kabalistic overtones too
just for the foil hatters mate
thanks
here is a definition of religion as is understood by many ---any similarities here ?

Freemasonry is NOT a religion, to be recognised as a religion you require:
Faith in a god; we allow our members to have faith in anything they wish, how they worship is their business and is never discussed inside lodge proceedings.

Prayer; There is no prayer inside lodge functions, if you want to pray to your deity then feel free to do so outside of the lodge functions.

Rituals; Masons do have rituals, however these are more akin to plays and reenactments than anything overtly religious, we certainly have religious symbology but this is only down to traditional historical roots.

A membership not associaed with any other religious body; Freemasonry clearly falls short of this, we actively encourage members to take part in their own religious doctrines and worship their gods as they see fit, so long as it stays outside our meetings its all good.

Religious services; Again our funtions are members only, unless a person can wander in off the street and take part its not officialy recognised as a religion.

Whilst masons certainly do share some commonality with religious organisations and groups we do not formaly worship, instruct members that "thou shalt worship none other than the masonic antichrist" or any such drivel and therefore cannot be classed as a religion.

As for kabalistic overtones? this again is purely speculative, some of our symbology shares ties with hebrew (the character yud for instance), and some of our literaure ties in with religious mysticism from several different religions including the kabbalah which is where this assumption could be made from.
Kabala is no more than jewish mysticism so it fits nicely with the concept of other religious mysticism, this doesnt mean that a person needs to follow a strict religion to understand or gain any benifit from its teachings, in fact the great thing about masonry is that it shoplifts ideas from several religious texts to emphasise its points and provide entertaining and engaging lessons through the forms of dramatic allegorical plays (our rituals)
Does this leave us open to wild speculation? Absoloutly!
Do we really care about that? Absoloutly Not!
It serves a purpose that far outweighs the negativity of peoples speculation.
Ive read a lot of religious doctrines and can draw parallels with masonry and indeed parallels between each religion, theres plenty of overlap to go around.

The fact is that Freemasonry has several factors which are open to wild and rampant speculation and assumptions, people will believe what they want to believe (and the paradox is that masons encourage this in their very own members, everyone should be different, who are we to tell you which god to worship or that your right or wrong for doing so?) but it doesnt change the fact that the real truth about masons is far more boring than the fantastic theories that members of the public cook up and therefore less prone to acceptance.

A great question to ask is that if theres a grand scheme to overthrow world governments and enslave the universe then why is it so secrative?
People are inherantly selfish, no one person can control something for very long, tell another about your plot and he'll want to control the world too, if there was such a grand scheme then it would tear itself apart through member greed and infighting from people vying for power to control the lot.

You see it in governments all the time, a global plot would be no quiet thing, its too open to corruption, greed and power plays from everyone who would be involved to be kept a secret for more than a few hours never mind several centuries.

Again though this would make for a poor Tom Hanks movie, slow down conspiricy theorists book sales and wind up making far less money from shilling a demographic so eager to engage in flights of fantasy. So why let the truth get in the way of a good yarn?

[z786]

they own all the banks, they print the money
why would they need to rob when they own it?
rockerfeller, builderburg etc are all elite families

is it true, the name "rockerfeller" or any variation of it is copyrighted?

[nara]

I find it quite amusing that the people who are saying we are brain washed are the ones who are actually brain washed

Excellent point!

Though I think amusement should be tempered with sadness.

[racin-snake]

what ?
the question is there in the quote you pasted?
also
just to set things clear i am not a conspiracy theorist
i would like to know an answer to a few simple questions
and your mockery of people who ask questions is showing you up for what you've been taught
and where did i mention shape shifting ?
have another look youl find thats your idea not mine my fiend
the question is..... masons have many degrees of membership what does it involve to be the upper echelon ?
also i was asking if the guys on the upper echelons know more than the guys on the bottom are aware off

you yourself have taken it upon yourself to ask and answer questions and ridicule yourself in the that post you have
just shown yourself up for your own ignorance in any of the matters
because we have a welfare state does'nt mean there are no other hidden agendas ?
an ill workforce is no use to them?
and what is money ?
and who controls it?
what percentage of the world owns the most ?



brain washing
how simplistic
they do not need to brainwash
they have YOU where they want YOU

government and media are far more subtle than this crude nonsense your spouting ?
by far more than you are actually aware "wouldnt it have been easier and a better kept secret NOT to ADVERTISE and keep it quiet ffs "
hence my questions if they advertised it i wouldnt ask the same questions

how do you think they get you to buy the newest football strip ect?
by using far more subtle methods ....why do they have spin ?
to use these subtle methods on you
entertained population is a non thinking population my friend
the small rectangular box tells you all you need to know
and when you need to know it right ?
how absurd and shallow .....

its a very sorry state when you ask questions the reply is complete rubbish
its a right to ask questions a right your media and leaders are slowly eroding